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HOF Class 2017
#21
Yeah things will probably change when more anonymous voters cast their ballot. Sad to see Walker with such little support so far.
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#22
(2016-12-17, 04:30 PM)Chris D Wrote: I dont really agree with the notion, but seems voters hold distinction to who should be first ballot hall of famers or not.   They held Alomar back for a year presumably because of the spitting incident.

not making it this year, doesn't mean he won't later.

I expect Vlad to get in eventually, but I hate the "First ballot" BS. They either are or aren't. 

The problem at the moment is that the ballot is so loaded with viable candidates they can't all get those votes. Guys with maxed ballots are more likely to leave a candidate like Vlad off early, because they know he'll get in eventually.

It just pisses me off when a guy who should be viewed as a no doubter is made to wait. Had the same problem with Bagwell. Just too many stupid voters.
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#23
(2016-12-17, 03:58 PM)Chris D Wrote: IRod getting more love than I thought he would (as a juicer)

Can't argue with his stats...offensively and defensively one of the best catchers ever...but PED use has been a big cloud over the users and have kept others from getting in.

The PED cloud this year more than ever is starting to dissipate. Many writers are reacting to Selig's induction, saying the Hall has basically endorsed cheating by voting him in almost unanimously, and at the very least it's hypocritical. 

Some think it would only be fitting to have Bonds and Clemens standing with Selig at Cooperstown, considering Selig's role during the PED heyday.
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#24
(2016-12-17, 06:07 PM)dmc23 Wrote:
(2016-12-17, 04:30 PM)Chris D Wrote: I dont really agree with the notion, but seems voters hold distinction to who should be first ballot hall of famers or not.   They held Alomar back for a year presumably because of the spitting incident.

not making it this year, doesn't mean he won't later.

I expect Vlad to get in eventually, but I hate the "First ballot" BS. They either are or aren't. 

I don't think that is true at all just because standards are constantly changing. Look at Kirby Puckett or Tim Raines. Both opposite sides of the argument. Most people would argue that Puckett would not get in now with the advancement of knowledge and Raines has seen his support swell over the years for the same reason.

Unless a guy is a no brainer like Griffey I don;t have a problem with people waiting to see how things shake out.


Also, as much as I love Vlad I have to admit that he is a pretty borderline candidate. What is truly crazy is that Vlad is getting so much more support than Walker who arguably has a better case than Vlad.
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#25
Yeah Paul Swydan at Fangraphs wrote a great piece about that on Friday. Makes a strong argument that Walker was a great hitter regardless of the fact he played home games at Coors.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/if-you-vo...or-walker/
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#26
71 public ballots now (16%)


Bagwell 90%
Raines 89%
Rodriguez 85%
Hoffman 76%

Bonds 72%
Clemens 72%
Guerrero 72%
Martinez 65%
Mussina 63%
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#27
99 public ballots (22-23%)


Bagwell 92%
Raines 91%
Rodriguez 86%
Hoffman 75%
Guerrero 75%

Bonds 73%
Clemens 73%
Martinez 67%
Mussina 60%
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#28
Surprisingly 3 ballots were made public today, up to 108 now (25%)



Bagwell 92.6%
Raines 91.7%
Rodriguez 85.2%
Guerrero 75.9%


Hoffman 74.1%
Bonds 71.3%
Clemens 71.3%
Martinez 66.7%
Mussina 60.2%
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#29
153 ballots (35%)


Bagwell 93.5%
Raines 90.8%
Rodriguez 85.0%
Guerrero 77.1%


Hoffman 71.9%
Martinez 70.6%
Bonds 69.9%
Clemens 69.9%
Mussina 62.7%
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#30
172 ballots (39-40%)

Bagwell 91.9%
Raines 91.9%
Rodriguez 82.6%
Guerrero 75.0%


Hoffman 72.1%
Martinez 69.2%
Bonds 68.6%
Clemens 68.0%
Mussina 62.2%
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#31
Awesome that Raines is going to get in. And eyebrow raising at how close Bonds and Clemens are
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#32
And also a shame at how far back Larry Walker is.
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#33
(2017-01-06, 11:59 AM)shadylane Wrote: And also a shame at how far back Larry Walker is.

I have a feeling Walker might end up getting the Raines treatment. Voters won't really give him the look he deserves until his last year on the ballot. At this point a lot of them just write him off because of Colorado and just ignore the advance metrics that say he was fantastic beyond that.
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#34
Yeah, Walker's .865 OPS on the road is higher than the career overall OPS's of Wade Boggs, Bernie Williams, Al Kaline and George Brett. Walker was no slouch away from Coors.
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#35
190 ballots (43-44%)


Raines 91.6%
Bagwell 91.1%
Rodriguez 80.5%


Guerrero 74.2%
Hoffman 73.2%
Martinez 67.4%
Bonds 64.7%
Clemens 64.2%
Mussina 61.1%
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#36
200 ballots (46%)


Raines 91.5%
Bagwell 91.0%
Rodriguez 80.0%


Guerrero 74.5%
Hoffman 73.5%
Martinez 67.0%
Bonds 64.0%
Clemens 63.5%
Mussina 60.5%


Official results to be released Wednesday.
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#37
215 ballots (49%)


Raines 91.2%
Bagwell 88.8%
Rodriguez 78.1%


Guerrero 74.0%
Hoffman 72.6%
Martinez 67.9%
Bonds 62.8%
Clemens 61.9%
Mussina 60.5%


3 ballots away from the estimated halfway point.
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#38
226 ballots (52%)


Raines 89.8%
Bagwell 88.5%
Rodriguez 78.3%


Hoffman 72.6%
Guerrero 71.7%
Martinez 66.4%
Bonds 62.8%
Clemens 61.9%


Based on the estimate of 435 ballots being cast, Raines needs 59.3% of remaining voters to vote for him.
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#39
early on I said Bagwell and Kent...

Kent is nowhere close...but Bagwell looks safe.

I don't necessarily agree with Raines getting in, but not really against it either. Hope they put him in as an Expo.

Pudge...was one of my favorites in his time...and if not for PEDs would be more than okay with him getting in...as it stands though...don't want him, or Clemens, or Bonds anywhere near the Hall.
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#40
A shame to see Guerrero has really fallen off.
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