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Lebron
#21
Kobe is popular and respected but nobody thinks he was better than Lebron. Lebron at 31 is on pace to eclipse Jordan in every way. He may not we will see but I wouldn't bet against him.

also you have to credit him for wearing this shirt today. Serious shade


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"I thank you in advance for the great round of applause I am about to get." - Bo Diddley
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#22
MVP Awards:
Kobe - 1
Lebron - 4

Finals MVP Awards:
Kobe - 2
Lebron - 3

Lebron's just lacking some rings right now. But he has time to get those. (His prime years were in Miami though, but even so he's still the best in the World right now).
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#23
Kobe ranks in the 10-20 area of all time.

LeBron has already surpassed that and is still only 31.

There's really no debate between the two anymore.
"Larry Bird isn't white, he's clear" - Bill Murray
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#24
I am in the corner of MJ. Best there ever was because he could do it all and his passion and urge to win was above all others. Someone brought up their ages and what they won by that age, but you have to remember that MJ played only 15 seasons and so far Lebron played 13...and if you don't count the 2 useless seasons he played on the Wizards you could say that MJ played only 13. Now look at the numbers!

For me the thing that separates the two is the passion to put the game on their shoulders and just dominate the other team. LeBron does that on occasion and definitely did that in the last 3 games but MJ did that pretty much every game. Just look at LeBron...the guy is a friggen beast! How he does not have 50 points a game is beyond me. Yes it's a team game, but to be that big and have that much skill is crazy.
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#25
(2016-06-20, 01:02 PM)bodisthava Wrote:
(2016-06-20, 12:38 PM)Superlube11 Wrote:
(2016-06-20, 09:06 AM)bodisthava Wrote:
(2016-06-20, 08:09 AM)Superlube11 Wrote: I'm not sure I've ever heard of anyone not ranking him amongst the top 3-5 players of all time. The real bone of contention has been if he's the GOAT, which I don't believe he is - that is still MJ, IMO.


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At age 31 Lebron is actually ahead of Jordan in total win shares and MVPs and has the same number of titles Jordan had at 31. To be continued...


I guess the big difference there is MJ was 3/3 and ended up being 6/6. LBJ is 3/7......

Either way, can't dispute how awesome Lebron is. Physical freak of nature, but to me he just seems to be missing that extra edge mentally that separated MJ from everybody else.

When people talk about Jordan, the first thing they usually mention is his unmatched competitiveness and desire to win - so much so that he took so many things personally as fuel and for all intents and purposes was a real dick about it (re: HOF speech), lol.


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3/3 because he didn't make it as many times to the final. you are giving Jordan credit for getting beat down in rounds 1/2/3 in the early part of his career. It is not like he only played 6 years and batted a thousand. When he lost he lost earlier. Lebron is getting slagged for getting his team further every year but not finishing out every year. It is an impossible standard. Jordan didn't take the next step until he learned to distribute the ball better. I have no doubt one on one Jordan would beat Lebron as he was that competitive but for a team game I would take Lebron. I would also take Magic.

Ok, then how about 6/6 with 6 Finals MVP's vs 3/7 and 3 Finals MVP's (removing age comparison obviously and looking simply at Finals trips)?? Jordan also didn't bail to try and stack a team to "guarantee" some championships, Lol.......Actually to be honest, I think it's foolish to rank players based on their championships in the first place as it's a team game and I'm of the belief that Lebron only "needed" this title for the talking heads. That was just me commenting on one part of your post for discussion purposes. When talking LBJ vs MJ, I just look at their respective games. LBJ is a statisticians dream- his size and athleticism gives him the tools to do everything on both ends of the floor. The only other guy that's ever had that kind of tool kit was Magic, and Lebron is bigger, stronger, faster and more explosive. Despite the stat lines, there just always seems to be something missing. That presence, that command of the game. Maybe it's because he's almost always had a guy like Wade or Irving to balance the attack, I don't know. He made a big 3 and a huge block down the stretch but missed about 3 short range jumpers in the key after strong drives to the rim as well - those are the type of daggers that MJ was known for.

At the end of the day, I consider myself lucky to have been able to watch both of them play, and i'll admit, i'll likely never be convinced that Lebron is better than Jordan.....but does he have to be???
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#26
(2016-06-20, 03:26 PM)Superlube11 Wrote: Ok, then how about 6/6 with 6 Finals MVP's vs 3/7 and 3 Finals MVP's (removing age comparison obviously and looking simply at Finals trips)?? Jordan also didn't bail to try and stack a team to "guarantee" some championships, Lol.......Actually to be honest, I think it's foolish to rank players based on their championships in the first place as it's a team game and I'm of the belief that Lebron only "needed" this title for the talking heads. That was just me commenting on one part of your post for discussion purposes. When talking LBJ vs MJ, I just look at their respective games. LBJ is a statisticians dream- his size and athleticism gives him the tools to do everything on both ends of the floor. The only other guy that's ever had that kind of tool kit was Magic, and Lebron is bigger, stronger, faster and more explosive. Despite the stat lines, there just always seems to be something missing. That presence, that command of the game. Maybe it's because he's almost always had a guy like Wade or Irving to balance the attack, I don't know. He made a big 3 and a huge block down the stretch but missed about 3 short range jumpers in the key after strong drives to the rim as well - those are the type of daggers that MJ was known for.

At the end of the day, I consider myself lucky to have been able to watch both of them play, and i'll admit, i'll likely never be convinced that Lebron is better than Jordan.....but does he have to be???

That also didn't sit well with me and was the point when I started to dislike Lebron (along with many others). I was pulling for him in his first Finals to pull off the upset against the Spurs.
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#27
Amazing just amazing.
The lonesome foghorn blows.
 







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#28
(2016-06-20, 03:26 PM)Superlube11 Wrote:
(2016-06-20, 01:02 PM)bodisthava Wrote:
(2016-06-20, 12:38 PM)Superlube11 Wrote:
(2016-06-20, 09:06 AM)bodisthava Wrote:
(2016-06-20, 08:09 AM)Superlube11 Wrote: I'm not sure I've ever heard of anyone not ranking him amongst the top 3-5 players of all time. The real bone of contention has been if he's the GOAT, which I don't believe he is - that is still MJ, IMO.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

At age 31 Lebron is actually ahead of Jordan in total win shares and MVPs and has the same number of titles Jordan had at 31. To be continued...


I guess the big difference there is MJ was 3/3 and ended up being 6/6. LBJ is 3/7......

Either way, can't dispute how awesome Lebron is. Physical freak of nature, but to me he just seems to be missing that extra edge mentally that separated MJ from everybody else.

When people talk about Jordan, the first thing they usually mention is his unmatched competitiveness and desire to win - so much so that he took so many things personally as fuel and for all intents and purposes was a real dick about it (re: HOF speech), lol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

3/3 because he didn't make it as many times to the final. you are giving Jordan credit for getting beat down in rounds 1/2/3  in the early part of his career. It is not like he only played 6 years and batted a thousand. When he lost he lost earlier. Lebron is getting slagged for getting his team further every year but not finishing out every year. It is an impossible standard. Jordan didn't take the next step until he learned to distribute the ball better. I have no doubt one on one Jordan would beat Lebron as he was that competitive but for a team game I would take Lebron. I would also take Magic.

Ok, then how about 6/6 with 6 Finals MVP's vs 3/7 and 3 Finals MVP's (removing age comparison obviously and looking simply at Finals trips)?? Jordan also didn't bail to try and stack a team to "guarantee" some championships, Lol.......Actually to be honest, I think it's foolish to rank players based on their championships in the first place as it's a team game and I'm of the belief that Lebron only "needed" this title for the talking heads. That was just me commenting on one part of your post for discussion purposes. When talking LBJ vs MJ, I just look at their respective games. LBJ is a statisticians dream- his size and athleticism gives him the tools to do everything on both ends of the floor. The only other guy that's ever had that kind of tool kit was Magic, and Lebron is bigger, stronger, faster and more explosive. Despite the stat lines, there just always seems to be something missing. That presence, that command of the game. Maybe it's because he's almost always had a guy like Wade or Irving to balance the attack, I don't know. He made a big 3 and a huge block down the stretch but missed about 3 short range jumpers in the key after strong drives to the rim as well - those are the type of daggers that MJ was known for.

At the end of the day, I consider myself lucky to have been able to watch both of them play, and i'll admit, i'll likely never be convinced that Lebron is better than Jordan.....but does he have to be???

The reality is though is that Jordan while the definite alpha dog did play on stacked teams when he was able to start winning titles. His supporting cast really was strong. Before they gelled he would score tons and the team would lose so like all stars he did need talent around him like Lebron does. 

You are correct though Lebron does not have to beat Jordan. The fact that we can have this conversation and it not be completely ridiculous shows how good a career he has had. Now Charles Barkley today said Lebron doesn't make his top 5 so there is debate to be had for sure.
"I thank you in advance for the great round of applause I am about to get." - Bo Diddley
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#29
Have I been overrating Kobe all this time? I thought he was the best since Jordan because of the 5 rings. I am a bigger Lebron fan though.
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#30
(2016-06-20, 09:58 PM)TheNumber13 Wrote: Have I been overrating Kobe all this time? I thought he was the best since Jordan because of the 5 rings. I am a bigger Lebron fan though.

I don't think you're overrating Kobe, you just haven't got a chance to watch the other players on the GOAT list.

Bill Russell, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Magic Johnson, Wilt Chamberlain, Larry Bird, etc.
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#31
Mr. Duncan as well is on that GOAT list too.
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#32
In my opinion, Kobe is a top 10 player.

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. LeBron
4. Magic
5. Chamberlain
6. Russell
7. Duncan
8. Kobe
9. Bird
10. Toss up between Shaq or Olajuwon. I'll go with Olajuwon.
                   
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#33
Jordan
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then somewhere well below that is someone else.

Jordan also played 3 years of college and took 2 year off to play baseball. MJ and then 20 places below is someone else.
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#34
Lots of respect to Lebron but it will come out soon that Curry was hurt. Look for the shooting shoulder to be hurt.

I am happy for the Mistake on the Lake to finally have a team win a championship.. In the 1950's the population was over 900,000 and today it's less than 450,000.

People in Vancouver and Toronto that want lower prices for housing need to move to Detroit or Cleveland
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#35
Lebron was a great player before this series.
Now I think he's a legend, the David who led the fight and beat Goliath.

One of the most impressive performances of all-time, only team to come back from a 3-1 deficit to beat an almost unbeatable team with a unanimous MVP at the helm.
Why is common sense not so common?
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#36
(2016-06-23, 09:26 PM)Ululator Wrote: Lebron was a great player before this series.
Now I think he's a legend, the David who led the fight and beat Goliath.

One of the most impressive performances of all-time, only team to come back from a 3-1 deficit to beat an almost unbeatable team with a unanimous MVP at the helm.


That's why I asked why they lost

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"Not sure if I need a stiff drink to understand Shawn's threads...or a stiffer drink to recover from reading them"
Ulu
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#37
Because the game is not played on paper.

Bruins lost in 1971 to a much worse team, The Habs...

The 1980 U.S. miracle on ice hockey team...

The 2007 Patriots were 18-0...but lost the Super Bowl...
Why is common sense not so common?
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#38
Still celebrating the VICTORY!!!!!!!!

WOO
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#39
I wonder how many more rings Lebron will get.
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#40
...and if it will take him another 7 tries to get 3 more.
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