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Our Prospects Updates 2016
#41
The IceCap Top 6 heading into action tonight....

Andrighetto - McCarron - De la Rose
Matteau - Audette - Scherbak
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#42
Rangers won tonight and are only 2 points behind Montreal. If Pacioretty scores tonight, he'll tie Perry's and Getzlaf's goals combined.
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#43
Bc... Wrong thread? Lol
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#44
Terry reassigned to St. John's....
Flynn eyes return.
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#45
(2016-12-01, 02:11 PM)habling Wrote: Terry reassigned to St. John's....
Flynn eyes return.

Best news in a month. Not so much the return of Flynn (although he certainly doesn't hurt us) but rather the demotion of terry whom I believe brought slightly less than zero to the team.
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#46
(2016-12-02, 12:43 AM)Scriptor Wrote:
(2016-12-01, 02:11 PM)habling Wrote: Terry reassigned to St. John's....
Flynn eyes return.

Best news in a month. Not so much the return of Flynn (although he certainly doesn't hurt us) but rather the demotion of terry whom I believe brought slightly less than zero to the team.

Scherbak should of been called up instead of Terry .
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#47
To play where? With whom? LW? RW?

On a line with Galchenyuk and Radulov at LW this early? Facing top opponents may not be ideal. Can playing with the talent that those two represent make up for that challenge?

To die on a line with Plekanec at C?

On a third line with the offensively challenged (of late) Desharnais that is still searching for his game? On a line with Danault at C and Shaw on the RW, or Danault at C and Pacioretty on the LW (Scherbak at RW)?

On a 4th line like Terry?

There's no doubt that Scherbak is a much superior quality hockey player to Terry, but is this the time to fit him into the lineup at such a young age and still aid in his development?

I'm just asking.
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#48
(2016-12-02, 09:47 AM)Scriptor Wrote: To play where? With whom? LW? RW?

On a line with Galchenyuk and Radulov at LW this early? Facing top opponents may not be ideal. Can playing with the talent that those two represent make up for that challenge?

To die on a line with Plekanec at C?

On a third line with the offensively challenged (of late) Desharnais that is still searching for his game? On a line with Danault at C and Shaw on the RW, or Danault at C and Pacioretty on the LW (Scherbak at RW)?

On a 4th line like Terry?

There's no doubt that Scherbak is a much superior quality hockey player to Terry, but is this the time to fit him into the lineup at such a young age and still aid in his development?

I'm just asking.

I agree with the point you're getting at. Yes Scherbak is a better player but our opening was on the 4th line because Flynn went down  so we're better off calling someone up that we expect to play on the 4th line. If one of our top 6 gets injured then Scherbak is the way to go since he has top 6 potential and is where he should be playing
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#49
Altho what u say mada makes 100% sense. I dont think Terrry was called up due to 4th line need. He was one of their top O players and sticking to his word of... Give me a reason to call u up....Mb did call up the "best" and most deserving at the time

The prob is our coach believes the kids should be protected and that they r not good enough to play up in the line up when 1st called up. So they will all get 4th line duty...whether a star O player or a grinder. It does not matter to MT. They r put in a tough situation with limited opportunity to "prove themselves worthy of more". But if one, just one can do so...I would be happy fan. Right now no call ups have done much except Hudon, who looked good creating offensive chances in the 2 games I saw.
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#50
(2016-12-02, 04:29 PM)Haba-daba-do Wrote: Altho what u say mada makes 100% sense. I dont think Terrry was called up due to 4th line need. He was one of their top O players and sticking to his word of... Give me a reason to call u up....Mb did call up the "best" and most deserving at the time

The prob is our coach believes the kids should be protected and that they r not good enough to play up in the line up when 1st called up. So they will all get 4th line duty...whether a star O player or a grinder. It does not matter to MT. They r put in a tough situation with limited opportunity to "prove themselves worthy of more". But if one, just one can do so...I would be happy fan. Right now no call ups have done much except Hudon, who looked good creating offensive chances in the 2 games I saw.

Yes and no. Galchenyuk never played on the fourth line, limited ice time sure but not 4th line. Same with Gallagher and for the most part the same can be said about Lehkonen this year. If you can play, you can play. MacCarron and Hudon are different, 4th line is probably their celing, 3rd tops imo. Ghetto, Carr and so on aren't consistent enough to warrant top line minutes and might just be fringe players their entire career. I expect Scherback to play an offensive role when he gets promoted.
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#51
Michael McNiven playing the Best Hockey of his career....

http://ahl.report/

Nice read if you Hab time...
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#52
(2016-12-02, 04:39 PM)bchippie Wrote:
(2016-12-02, 04:29 PM)Haba-daba-do Wrote: Altho what u say mada makes 100% sense. I dont think Terrry was called up due to 4th line need. He was one of their top O players and sticking to his word of... Give me a reason to call u up....Mb did call up the "best" and most deserving at the time

The prob is our coach believes the kids should be protected and that they r not good enough to play up in the line up when 1st called up. So they will all get 4th line duty...whether a star O player or a grinder. It does not matter to MT. They r put in a tough situation with limited opportunity to "prove themselves worthy of more". But if one, just one can do so...I would be happy fan. Right now no call ups have done much except Hudon, who looked good creating offensive chances in the 2 games I saw.

Yes and no. Galchenyuk never played on the fourth line, limited ice time sure but not 4th line. Same with Gallagher and for the most part the same can be said about Lehkonen this year. If you can play, you can play.  MacCarron and Hudon are different, 4th line is probably their celing, 3rd tops imo.  Ghetto, Carr and so on aren't consistent enough to warrant top line minutes and might just be fringe players their entire career. I expect Scherback to play an offensive role when he gets promoted.
According to Barberio, Hudon's ceiling is much higher than your somewhat limited expectations. 

Throughout his career, Hudon has been a go-to guy who is asked to play when the team needs a big goal. It's a question of confidence and experience for him, IMO. 

He's been described as a game breaker and, given the limited opportunity he's had so far at the NHL level, it's much too early to throw in the towel when it comes to Hudon's upside or eventual role in the NHL, IMO.
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#53
Except Chuck was #3 overall...and he started playing on 3rd line. On most teams, he would be top 6 feom the start.

Gallagher too. Started 3rd line.

Lekh is a bit diff as he spent last 2 yrs in a pro league playing top 6. So this is like year 3 lol.

I am not ready to limit my expectation on players who have yet had a chance to show what they can do in the nhl. I think Ghetto and Carr, we know if they can be consistant that they can be solid 3rd line O players. Dont know if they will find consistancy. But they have been around enough now that u can tell what u have in them. They havent achieved it yet, but one can make an educated guess.

McC, Hudon still have not had enough nhl games to show what they can do. From the little I did see, no way they r no more then just 4th liners. I have seen Hudon in 3 games. Each one he has created offensive chances. I do think we may have a gem there. As for McC...3rs line...if he can develop some nhl offense maybe even 2nd line? Who knows, they havent even made it to nhl yet so who knows. I will hope for best.

If it took a talent like Chuck until last year to "arrive" , Imagine a regular young player? Not expecting stardom but wont write off yet when they havent even gotten to show/ develop their nhl game.
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#54
You need to pay a little more attention to other teams in the league. Taresenko started on the third line and only recently has been receiving top end minutes. There are countless examples of this throughout the league.

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#55
(2016-12-02, 09:36 PM)bchippie Wrote: You need to pay a little more attention to other teams in the league. Taresenko started on the third line and only recently has been receiving top end minutes.  There are countless examples of this throughout the league.

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Yeah, but our coach sucks, so it has to be different in this case Wink
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#56
Players sometimes get a chance to show what they can do, although not necessarily in ideal offensive situations. It is still an opportunity to show their ability to dominate against lesser opposition. IMO, if they can't dominate against lesser opposition from the get-go, they may well not be ready to match up (never mind dominate) against the other team's best players.

Seems logical, but some people get all up in knots because all they look at are player projections...
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#57
(2016-12-02, 09:36 PM)bchippie Wrote: You need to pay a little more attention to other teams in the league. Taresenko started on the third line and only recently has been receiving top end minutes.  There are countless examples of this throughout the league.

Sent from my T03 using Tapatalk

But on most teams there is a huge diff between 3rd line and 4th. A lot of teams have offensive 3rd lines. Not top 6 material but an offensive role none the less. Like when Chuck and Gally played 3rd line. They were not a grind line nor a shut down line. They were there to be offensive and get toi expeience while protected minutes.

You dont take a prospect who is def not a 4th line D specailist or grinder....and play him there in the nhl. To me playing a prospect on the 3rd line is the minimum of where he should start if u see the kid as an offnsive player. If u see the kid as a D or grinder frwd...then ok play him on 4rh line. If not keep him off the 4th line.

But MT takea his nhl 4th liners, moves them up the line up where they can at most look ok short term Kcausevtheu dont have top 6 talent) and then takes his prospects and plays them 4th line. This has nothing to do with the coach suckng... But it is def his thing to do. He naturally believes its the best way to win. And win he must do to keep his job. This season I am sure he could care less about developing a kids nhl game. He has to win, and playing his vets is his coaching style and decision. Does it make him a bad coach? If we win no. But he definately does not make him a teaching coach, one thonling beyond this season. One caring about next year of how to help young players become better for his organization.
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#58
(2016-12-03, 08:53 AM)Scriptor Wrote: Players sometimes get a chance to show what they can do, although not necessarily in ideal offensive situations. It is still an opportunity to show their ability to dominate against lesser opposition. IMO, if they can't dominate against lesser opposition from the get-go, they may well not be ready to match up (never mind dominate) against the other team's best players.

Seems logical, but some people get all up in knots because all they look at are player projections...

I dont think anyone should look at our prospects (outside of Serg) and xpect any sort of domination. He dont have star prospects. We do tho have nhl quality prospects. And when ur 3rd line C is dreadful, then be patient and try the kids for more then 3 games. They wont dominate, but they may be a little better then the vet u r replacing.

I will say Ghetto and Carr I did expect more from them after last year. They are both mid 20's. They need nhl toi to develop their nhl game. To find consistancy. And if they do...they wont be dominating players. But maybe good for 10-15 goals. Thats the type of nhl careers I see for those 2. More then what Flynn, Dd, Mitch have ever scored in their careers in a season?

You dont develop ur nhl game in the ahl. Only by playing in the nhl can that happen. Patience and time is needed. But our management team feels that then they get called up they shoyld be nhl ready. Impossible without nhl toi. They obviously should be developed to a point where u know they can play in the nhl...but there is still development that needs to be done. It takes a few seasons in the nhl for average nhl players to "arrive" but our team gives them 3 games lol.
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#59
Sometimes, it's as you say, but generally not, Haba. You lump every player being developed into the same basket and it isn't necessarily so.

Therrien, IMO, plays some third or 4th line players in the top 6 ( good luck calling which of the top two lines is actually the 1st line Wink ) because he clearly doesn't have enough genuine top 6 depth that can be both good defensively and good offensively to play a prototypical top 6.

He is doing precisely what you state other teams are doing with third lines that are expected to score some goals or provide some Offense. He is spreading out his O players as pairs on the top two lines and adding a player with an element that adds something to the pairings; Byron for speed and a willingness to buzz in and out of pay areas, Plekanec to be a shutdown C (without the Offense) between two players that might be able to generate scoring chances in Pacioretty and Gallagher, Desharnais (it just isn't working so far, although he is one of the better Cs on the team at generating scoring chances if you look at the advanced stats) with Lehkonen and Shaw, Shaw bringing the gumption, Lehkonen the scoring touch and Desharnais the alleged playmaking ability.

What you call out from Therrien, IMO, a coach that does need to win instead of, perhaps, concentrating on developing players, as you also mention, should be a finger pointed at Bergevin who must clearly see the team's needs to be addressed, the missing players for Therrien to do otherwise and still ice a winning lineup, without relying strictly on Price to do so.

I'm patient with Bergevin because this isn't the best time to land those missing pieces in a trade. He's also been historically (and, generally, successfully) proactive at the trade deadline. There is still hope we land one (hopefully two) missing piece(s) at the deadline to make a real push for a deep playoff run. The past has shown Bergevin's propensity for this, and not necessarily only as rentals.

There's two ways to look at things. Either you want a coach that focuses on developing players and are ready to contend in two, three, four or even five years, or you look at a coach, with the help of his GM, who focuses on getting things done sooner with a core nucleus while he still has that core nucleus locked up.

Who knows what the future holds in a Cap world, but one thing is for sure:

It's easier to get players to concede a little when you have a team on the cusp of winning and it becomes a little easier to keep your core together in that kind of an environment.

Therrien is far from perfect as a coach, but he is NHL coaching material and has often gotten more out of his lineup than it would appear he should get out of it, at least on paper.

It's not always pretty, though Wink

Bergevin, IMO, needs to provide the missing pieces. If not all this year, a bit this year for a longer playoff run that builds confidence and a little more next year, along with younger players continuing to mature, to be real contenders during those playoffs.

Being genuine contenders when Price's contract runs out may well help us re-sign the Best G without needing to forego too many other players in the process. The difference, IMO, between 9M and 10M, for example, especially long term, if it means playing for a winning team VS a developing team, isn't a difference worth moving for. In Price's case, it will be more a matter of respect by making him the team's highest paid player at the time he re-ups his contract, not about making him the highest paid player in the league, a little like it was with Lidstrom in Detroit, or Brodeur, I believe, in New Jersey.
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#60
Michael McCarron is not in the St. John's line up today....
I have not heard of an injury.
If/When I hear I will post.
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