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Phelps or Bolt?
#21
(2016-08-15, 07:23 PM)miltonred Wrote:
(2016-08-15, 10:01 AM)Habfan Wrote:
(2016-08-15, 04:20 AM)miltonred Wrote: For the record, Phelps is not the fastest swimmer over any distance, never has been.

Wha?  His WR in butterfly say differently, lol.

Who is the biggest star?  Bolt, no doubt about it.  His personality and where he comes from definitely helps (no one wants to cheer for a bloody American, lol), but mainly it's because it's the nature of the sport and everyone loves the fastest man on earth.

Butterfly is a slow technique for swimming which is why all the swimmers swim front crawl in the freestyle event. 
Record for 100metres butterfly is 11 seconds slower than 100 freestyle. And Phelps holds no world records today.
He did win gold, and set the world record in the 200 free though in 2008. So your original statement is very much a load of crap.
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#22
(2016-08-16, 02:17 AM)thebest41587 Wrote:
(2016-08-15, 07:23 PM)miltonred Wrote:
(2016-08-15, 10:01 AM)Habfan Wrote:
(2016-08-15, 04:20 AM)miltonred Wrote: For the record, Phelps is not the fastest swimmer over any distance, never has been.

Wha?  His WR in butterfly say differently, lol.

Who is the biggest star?  Bolt, no doubt about it.  His personality and where he comes from definitely helps (no one wants to cheer for a bloody American, lol), but mainly it's because it's the nature of the sport and everyone loves the fastest man on earth.

Butterfly is a slow technique for swimming which is why all the swimmers swim front crawl in the freestyle event. 
Record for 100metres butterfly is 11 seconds slower than 100 freestyle. And Phelps holds no world records today.
He did win gold, and set the world record in the 200 free though in 2008. So your original statement is very much a load of crap.

Yes I stand corrected he was once a world record holder over 200mtrs.  Now can your bring yourself to be so insulting to Habfan, who thinks butterfly is the fastest swimming stroke?

So to reset the argument, of his 23 golds one of them was for being the fastest swimmer over 200 metres. Doesn't sound so incredible when you put it that way.
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#23
(2016-08-15, 07:54 PM)Chris D Wrote: I got to give it to Phelps.  

Bolt runs fast...awesome....he runs faster over short distances than any other out there ever....awesome....

But what what Phelps has done, in multiple events, would be equivalent to Bolt winning 100m, 110m hurdles, 200m, 400m...all of them...over 3 Olympics.

The broad amount of events that Phelps has dominated in, gives him the edge imo.  

28 olympic medals...23 of them gold, is hard to outweigh.

Not really. it would be like Bolt winning in the 100 and 200, running forwards, backwards, with his arms waving in the air, with three team mates doing a variety of techniques, and over 400 by personally doing a combination of all four.

Thankfully in athletics they just run a hundred metres and see who is fastest. 

Now don't get me wrong, any swimmer has a chance of doing what Phelps has done, but they haven't, he has. He has dominated in a large part of the sports categories, though not the fastest category. For me the number of events and styles makes it a bit of a circus. Its simply not possible for an athlete to win so  many events in any other sport, so his achievement cannot be compared outside of swimming.
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#24
Bigger star, in terms of recognition, marketability, is Bolt by a landslide.

As far as their accomplishments, nobody can deny what either guy has been able to do, so it really comes down to personal opinion.

I tend to agree with those who say the number of different disciplines in swimming races is a little ridiculous. I hold the same opinion of speed walking versus running.

Why create a race where you do something other than the fastest possible way of doing whatever it is you're racing at?

Now, navigating a different terrain/course (hurdles, steeplechase, moguls in skiing etc) is one thing...doing the same thing: one end of an open pool to the other (repeat), in various different methods, is a little redundant to me.

To celebrate being the fastest, at the third fastest way of doing something, is a bit goofy.
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#25
Is the question who's the best/most dominant athlete? Or who's more popular? You guys seem to be addressing the latter.
We live to survive our paradoxes
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#26
(2016-08-16, 08:54 AM)miltonred Wrote:
(2016-08-16, 02:17 AM)thebest41587 Wrote:
(2016-08-15, 07:23 PM)miltonred Wrote: Butterfly is a slow technique for swimming which is why all the swimmers swim front crawl in the freestyle event. 
Record for 100metres butterfly is 11 seconds slower than 100 freestyle. And Phelps holds no world records today.

He did win gold, and set the world record in the 200 free though in 2008. So your original statement is very much a load of crap.

Yes I stand corrected he was once a world record holder over 200mtrs.  Now can your bring yourself to be so insulting to Habfan, who thinks butterfly is the fastest swimming stroke?

So to reset the argument, of his 23 golds one of them was for being the fastest swimmer over 200 metres. Doesn't sound so incredible when you put it that way.

He still beat the entire world in every one of those strokes. Kind of unfair to blame him for there being several different strokes of swimming, and for competing and winning in each of them.
We live to survive our paradoxes
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#27
(2016-08-16, 11:08 AM)lewis94 Wrote: Is the question who's the best/most dominant athlete? Or who's more popular? You guys seem to be addressing the latter.

OP was simply "who is the bigger star".

IMO "star" has more to do with fame/status than it does athletic dominance.

That said...I don't feel that citing the number of medals for an athlete who competes in a sport with many more medals available, as evidence of him being a better or more dominant athlete, is a fair case to make. 

There is no right or wrong answer to this question in terms of "who is better" IMO. They are both legends of their sport, and it's like comparing Wayne Gretzky to Michael Jordan.
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#28
(2016-08-16, 11:08 AM)lewis94 Wrote: Is the question who's the best/most dominant athlete? Or who's more popular? You guys seem to be addressing the latter.

Well the question was who's the "biggest star", so it seems it should be the latter.
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#29
(2016-08-16, 11:11 AM)lewis94 Wrote:
(2016-08-16, 08:54 AM)miltonred Wrote:
(2016-08-16, 02:17 AM)thebest41587 Wrote:
(2016-08-15, 07:23 PM)miltonred Wrote: Butterfly is a slow technique for swimming which is why all the swimmers swim front crawl in the freestyle event. 
Record for 100metres butterfly is 11 seconds slower than 100 freestyle. And Phelps holds no world records today.

He did win gold, and set the world record in the 200 free though in 2008. So your original statement is very much a load of crap.

Yes I stand corrected he was once a world record holder over 200mtrs.  Now can your bring yourself to be so insulting to Habfan, who thinks butterfly is the fastest swimming stroke?

So to reset the argument, of his 23 golds one of them was for being the fastest swimmer over 200 metres. Doesn't sound so incredible when you put it that way.

He still beat the entire world in every one of those strokes. Kind of unfair to blame him for there being several different strokes of swimming, and for competing and winning in each of them.

Blaming him? I'm not blaming him, where do I apportion blame or even criticism of him? In fact I applauded him. I am merely pointing out the context in which his medal count needs to be placed. 
Sheesh.  Plain
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#30
Cubans are the only other people on the planet who aspire to swim fast and far.
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#31
But doesn't swimming take a much more variety of skill to excel in? It seems like there is so much more strategy involved.

Bo Dangles, I'd say Gretzky was more dominant in hockey than Jordan was in basketball. His stats are a landslide better than the second overall.
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#32
(2016-08-16, 08:54 AM)miltonred Wrote:
(2016-08-16, 02:17 AM)thebest41587 Wrote:
(2016-08-15, 07:23 PM)miltonred Wrote:
(2016-08-15, 10:01 AM)Habfan Wrote:
(2016-08-15, 04:20 AM)miltonred Wrote: For the record, Phelps is not the fastest swimmer over any distance, never has been.

Wha?  His WR in butterfly say differently, lol.

Who is the biggest star?  Bolt, no doubt about it.  His personality and where he comes from definitely helps (no one wants to cheer for a bloody American, lol), but mainly it's because it's the nature of the sport and everyone loves the fastest man on earth.

Butterfly is a slow technique for swimming which is why all the swimmers swim front crawl in the freestyle event. 
Record for 100metres butterfly is 11 seconds slower than 100 freestyle. And Phelps holds no world records today.
He did win gold, and set the world record in the 200 free though in 2008. So your original statement is very much a load of crap.

Yes I stand corrected he was once a world record holder over 200mtrs.  Now can your bring yourself to be so insulting to Habfan, who thinks butterfly is the fastest swimming stroke?

So to reset the argument, of his 23 golds one of them was for being the fastest swimmer over 200 metres. Doesn't sound so incredible when you put it that way.
I think it's far more likely Habfan didn't understand your angle, then what you're implying. Instead of begging for insults on others, just get your facts straights when making outlandish statements. I mean it's not like it happened the other day and you missed it, it happened 8 years ago. Laziness leads to lunacy Silly


Also, I'm not sure how I'm being "insulting" when what I'm saying is true. Your statement was a load of crap. That's not an insult, that's a factual statement. It had no truth behind it whatsoever. And 8 years ago, it still wouldn't have been true. Less Fappy fappy instead of Crappy crappy Wink
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#33
(2016-08-15, 07:54 PM)Chris D Wrote: I got to give it to Phelps.  

Bolt runs fast...awesome....he runs faster over short distances than any other out there ever....awesome....

But what what Phelps has done, in multiple events, would be equivalent to Bolt winning 100m, 110m hurdles, 200m, 400m...all of them...over 3 Olympics.

The broad amount of events that Phelps has dominated in, gives him the edge imo.  

28 olympic medals...23 of them gold, is hard to outweigh.

Sorry you are wrong! Phelps is really really good but Bolt is better. Swimming events are so similar that it gives the elite swimmer many more opportunities to win medals. For example back in 1972 Mark Spitz won 7 gold medals in swimming setting 7 world records. Unlike Bolt Phelps has not won every Olympic race he has been. And no runner in history at any distance has ever won gold medals in three consecutive Olympics like Bolt has.
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#34
(2016-08-20, 08:41 AM)duediligence Wrote:
(2016-08-15, 07:54 PM)Chris D Wrote: I got to give it to Phelps.  

Bolt runs fast...awesome....he runs faster over short distances than any other out there ever....awesome....

But what what Phelps has done, in multiple events, would be equivalent to Bolt winning 100m, 110m hurdles, 200m, 400m...all of them...over 3 Olympics.

The broad amount of events that Phelps has dominated in, gives him the edge imo.  

28 olympic medals...23 of them gold, is hard to outweigh.

Sorry you are wrong!  Phelps is really really good but Bolt is better. Swimming events are so similar that it gives the elite swimmer many more opportunities to win medals. For example back in 1972 Mark Spitz won 7 gold medals in swimming setting 7 world records. Unlike Bolt Phelps has not won every Olympic race he has been.  And no runner in history at any distance has ever won gold medals in three consecutive Olympics like Bolt has.

Not at all.   The only strokes that have even a bit of overlap are the fly and freestyle--and that's a just a bit.
It is very hard for someone to do as well across so many events at the elite level.    
And the distances make huge differences as well.  100 m mrs 200 m are different beasts entirely.
In fact, so far what Phelps has done has been impossible before him.

You'll  notice even that the one who might win the 100 breastroke is not a even medal threat in the 200 and vice versa.  

I think Chris's analogy is pretty accurate.  

Both athletes have the benefit of relays.
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#35
(2016-08-20, 08:43 PM)nicky Wrote:
(2016-08-20, 08:41 AM)duediligence Wrote:
(2016-08-15, 07:54 PM)Chris D Wrote: I got to give it to Phelps.  

Bolt runs fast...awesome....he runs faster over short distances than any other out there ever....awesome....

But what what Phelps has done, in multiple events, would be equivalent to Bolt winning 100m, 110m hurdles, 200m, 400m...all of them...over 3 Olympics.

The broad amount of events that Phelps has dominated in, gives him the edge imo.  

28 olympic medals...23 of them gold, is hard to outweigh.

Sorry you are wrong!  Phelps is really really good but Bolt is better. Swimming events are so similar that it gives the elite swimmer many more opportunities to win medals. For example back in 1972 Mark Spitz won 7 gold medals in swimming setting 7 world records. Unlike Bolt Phelps has not won every Olympic race he has been.  And no runner in history at any distance has ever won gold medals in three consecutive Olympics like Bolt has.

Not at all.   The only strokes that have even a bit of overlap are the fly and freestyle--and that's a just a bit.
It is very hard for someone to do as well across so many events at the elite level.    
And the distances make huge differences as well.  100 m mrs 200 m are different beasts entirely.
In fact, so far what Phelps has done has been impossible before him.

You'll  notice even that the one who might win the 100 breastroke is not a even medal threat in the 200 and vice versa.  

I think Chris's analogy is pretty accurate.  

Both athletes have the benefit of relays.

Ian Thorpe says different, who has won gold from 100 through 400mtrs.
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#36
Right. Thorpedo. forgot about him.

Thorpe did a lot.
not Phelps a lot. But a lot.

Still stand by my points though.


I will say I don't care about the comparison.

I'd rather pick a gymnast or someone actually.
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#37
(2016-08-20, 12:01 AM)TheNumber13 Wrote: But doesn't swimming take a much more variety of skill to excel in? It seems like there is so much more strategy involved.

Bo Dangles, I'd say Gretzky was more dominant in hockey than Jordan was in basketball. His stats are a landslide better than the second overall.

Lemieux is right there with gretzky in many categories.
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#38
It's the stat about how you could take away all his goals and he would still have the most points that blows my mind, and makes me think "nobody was even close".
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#39
He had more assists than any other player had points and then he had more goals than any other player on top of that.


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#40
Yeah he was insane. Will not be touched. Those records are phenomenal.

Rye has a point if we adjust for games played. Gretzkys PPG is 1.92 and Lemieux's is 1.88.
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