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Phillip Danault
#61
(2017-01-16, 10:21 AM)Haba-daba-do Wrote: I still don't like the combo of Em/Weber....in game these guys often can not bring the puck up the zone and/or pass to our frwds for a fast transition game. When one with our top line, it works cause Chuck/Rad will gladly bring the puck up. But man, Emelin just waaaayyyy too often just clears the puck out of zone/off the boards and looses puck possession for our team. I don't want to see that when our top line is out.

You've been vocal against this combo even before they played together. Truth is they are one of the best shut down duo in the league. As far as them getting the puck out, Weber is excellent at making that first short pass. It's not carrying it out like Subban but it's getting it out. As far as Emelin, he's not as bad as you say he is at getting the puck out. This D pair has been playing excellent hockey but you think they have the talent of Douglas Murray and Hal Gill. Again, you never liked that pairing from day one but how can you possibly not be happy with what they've accomplished. Makes me wonder if we're watching the same games.
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#62
bc....don't put words into what I have said when I never said it

never said I think they have the talent of Douglass Murray or Hal Gill

They are a shut down duo....great put them out on the PK together

As a fan, I want a puck moving dman on my first pair with Weber. He needs a skater who is faster then him, he is great in shutting down....we don't need 2 together and then we end up with 2 puck movers in Petry/Beau who have been bad many times in their zone. Why not split that up? MT likes to spread his offense...when you don't have bonifide 2nd line then it's the smart way to go. So I am surprised he cares more about the right/left pairing then the puck mover/d type combo.

I purposely watched a few shifts those guys where on together and all Emelin did was give over the puck cause he never got it up to any of our frwds. Could be our frwds fault, or that he is....clear first mentality, instead of move it up and keep possession mentality. 2 very good shut down dmen....I prefere them not being together. Don't read more into it or make statements I didnt' make. Happy
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#63
So you agree that they are an excellent shut down pair, great. Weber is also 5th in the league for points by a D, second in goals and first for PP goals. Clearly Emelin is not dragging him down. You know who's struggling though, Roman Josi. You know that guy that apparently was carrying Weber.
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#64
There's no doubt that we can maximize the stabilizing effect on D of a Weber by giving him smooth skating, puck-moving, offensive D as a partner. Weber will cover for him defensively and support him offensively with the booming shot as an ever-present option.

The problem is we don't have that type of D.

Beaulieu can skate but, isn't an offensive D with a great shot from the point or superior playmaking abilities.

Markov is a great playmaking D and has a surprisingly good wrist shot but, he's not a particularly speedy skater.

Barberio.... Never mind

Petry might well be the closest thing to what would maximize Weber as a D pairing partner but, he's also right-handed and that likely leaves the other pairings to weak, IMO.

Sergachev, next season, might well be too young to pair up with Weber, although the veteran D may be a great mentor for Sergachev. Otherwise, the young Russian, who is a LHD but, prefers to play on the right side to exploit his superior shot, might well be a good candidate to be mentored by Markov, if he is re-signed with the team.

If nothing changes at D for next season (i.e. Beaulieu isn't traded and the remaining D of him and Emelin that aren't protected isn't selected by Las Vegas), I'd go with this at D for at least a bulk of the season:

Emelin - Weber
Beaulieu - Petry
Markov - Sergachev

Sergachev's progression -- or lack thereof -- would be crucial in determining what happened beyond next season at D.

He could be ready to pair up with Weber.
He could leap frog Petry as 2nd RD and Petry would become 3rd pairing RD or, perhaps, move onto the 1st pairing with Weber as a possibility mentioned before.
He could need another year as a 3rd pairing D.
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#65
yes scriptor

there is no other option unfortunately. but 2 shut down guys are your top pairing is not my fav way to go. You want them out with your top frwds, so you want fast transition.

Not Murray and Gill....just teasing BC
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#66
Beaulieu and Petry will benefit from not facing the opposition that Emelin and Weber face. They'll have a better chance at creating Offense and won't be as exposed when they have defensive breakdowns (which they are regularly having of late). When Markov returns, and if he returns on a pairing with Petry, Petry will have free reign and Markov will be there to cover for him positionally, at least.
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#67
Out of all of the things that need to be improved on this team the Emelin-Weber pairing is hardly the biggest concern. Although Emelin is not the ideal partner for a guy like Weber it's not like they spend their ice time hemmed in their own end.
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#68
They've had some trouble as well of late along with the entire D, Labrador but, I agree, it's far from our biggest worry. For the most part, they've done well. Emelin is having one of his best seasons on every metric, while playing alongside Weber.

It's not flashy but, it's effective.
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#69
(2017-01-16, 01:11 PM)Scriptor Wrote: There's no doubt that we can maximize the stabilizing effect on D of a Weber by giving him smooth skating, puck-moving, offensive D as a partner. Weber will cover for him defensively and support him offensively with the booming shot as an ever-present option.

The problem is we don't have that type of D.

Beaulieu can skate but, isn't an offensive D with a great shot from the point or superior playmaking abilities.

Markov is a great playmaking D and has a surprisingly good wrist shot but, he's not a particularly speedy skater.

Barberio.... Never mind

Petry might well be the closest thing to what would maximize Weber as a D pairing partner but, he's also right-handed and that likely leaves the other pairings to weak, IMO.

Sergachev, next season, might well be too young to pair up with Weber, although the veteran D may be a great mentor for Sergachev. Otherwise, the young Russian, who is a LHD but, prefers to play on the right side to exploit his superior shot, might well be a good candidate to be mentored by Markov, if he is re-signed with the team.

If nothing changes at D for next season (i.e. Beaulieu isn't traded and the remaining D of him and Emelin that aren't protected isn't selected by Las Vegas), I'd go with this at D for at least a bulk of the season:

Emelin - Weber
Beaulieu - Petry
Markov - Sergachev

Sergachev's progression -- or lack thereof -- would be crucial in determining what happened beyond next season at D.

He could be ready to pair up with Weber.
He could leap frog Petry as 2nd RD and Petry would become 3rd pairing RD or, perhaps, move onto the 1st pairing with Weber as a possibility mentioned before.
He could need another year as a 3rd pairing D.

What is it about Beaulieu that you dislike and don't seem to have the patience to let him prove he can be a top 4 Dman for the Habs as well as eventually replace the aging Markov?
He is only 24 and has only played 189 games and is really into only his third full season.
In the 189 games he has played he has put up 48 points and has a +/- of 22.
I'm willing to have patience with him and give him a chance to build his confidence.
Most people will tell you that it takes more time for a Dman to develop than a forward does and currently he is the only possible top 4 Dman the Habs have, other than Sergachev, but this guy is still in Juniors and no matter how talented he is we will have to be patient and wait for him to prove that he is a top 4 Dman in the NHL.
Sure he makes mistakes, but so does Markov and how long did it take him to become the top Dman he is today?
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#70
(2017-01-16, 01:59 PM)Scriptor Wrote: They've had some trouble as well of late along with the entire D, Labrador but, I agree, it's far from our biggest worry. For the most part, they've done well. Emelin is having one of his best seasons on every metric, while playing alongside Weber.

It's not flashy but, it's effective.

yeah, Emelin is having his best season and Weber will be a finalist for the Norris this year. That to me says they're doing just fine together.
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#71
(2017-01-16, 02:03 PM)HIGGINSFAN Wrote:
(2017-01-16, 01:11 PM)Scriptor Wrote: There's no doubt that we can maximize the stabilizing effect on D of a Weber by giving him smooth skating, puck-moving, offensive D as a partner. Weber will cover for him defensively and support him offensively with the booming shot as an ever-present option.

The problem is we don't have that type of D.

Beaulieu can skate but, isn't an offensive D with a great shot from the point or superior playmaking abilities.

Markov is a great playmaking D and has a surprisingly good wrist shot but, he's not a particularly speedy skater.

Barberio.... Never mind

Petry might well be the closest thing to what would maximize Weber as a D pairing partner but, he's also right-handed and that likely leaves the other pairings to weak, IMO.

Sergachev, next season, might well be too young to pair up with Weber, although the veteran D may be a great mentor for Sergachev. Otherwise, the young Russian, who is a LHD but, prefers to play on the right side to exploit his superior shot, might well be a good candidate to be mentored by Markov, if he is re-signed with the team.

If nothing changes at D for next season (i.e. Beaulieu isn't traded and the remaining D of him and Emelin that aren't protected isn't selected by Las Vegas), I'd go with this at D for at least a bulk of the season:

Emelin - Weber
Beaulieu - Petry
Markov - Sergachev

Sergachev's progression -- or lack thereof -- would be crucial in determining what happened beyond next season at D.

He could be ready to pair up with Weber.
He could leap frog Petry as 2nd RD and Petry would become 3rd pairing RD or, perhaps, move onto the 1st pairing with Weber as a possibility mentioned before.
He could need another year as a 3rd pairing D.

What is it about Beaulieu that you dislike and don't seem to have the patience to let him prove he can be a top 4 Dman for the Habs as well as eventually replace the aging Markov?
He is only 24 and has only played 189 games and is really into only his third full season.
In the 189 games he has played he has put up 48 points and has a +/- of 22.
I'm willing to have patience with him and give him a chance to build his confidence.
Most people will tell you that it takes more time for a Dman to develop than a forward does and currently he is the only possible top 4 Dman the Habs have, other than Sergachev, but this guy is still in Juniors and no matter how talented he is we will have to be patient and wait for him to prove that he is a top 4 Dman in the NHL.
Sure he makes mistakes, but so does Markov and how long did it take him to become the top Dman he is today?

Actually, I don't dislike Beaulieu at all. He's still one hell of a skater and can carry the puck like no other D currently on the Habs.

That said, the offensive upside he had been sold as having may well never materialize. His shot isn't overly impressive and his ability to find shooting lanes looks less than instinctive.

Playmaking skills of Beaulieu are still to be determined, IMO, and expecting Beaulieu to be a Markov replacement, especially in this aspect of the game is a great disservice for N8 The Gr8.

I can see him replacing the current Markov at even strength as a 2nd pairing D with the right partner (A Petry type D would be alright. A Markov type D would be great but, likely wishful thinking). I don't see remotely close to Markov-like upside for Beaulieu on the PP.

Beaulieu can develop into a capable D on the PK, using his speed well with improved positioning.

I wouldn't mind keeping Beaulieu in the fold at all and see more upside than a third pairing future. I do not, however, see a 1st pairing upside for Beaulieu that often makes questionnable hockey decisions.

That still leaves us needing a #2 LD and I wonder if, down the line, Sergachev will be that #2 LD or continue to play where he is most comfortable at RD?

Down the line -- it remains to be seen -- Beaulieu (LD) could well be a good pairing partner with Sergachev (RD) but, that seems far away still.

I just think that Beaulieu may still be perceived to have enough upside to help bring something of worth back via the trade route (as part of a package), something more valuable than Beaulieu, in the end.

He's no barberio, that's for sure Wink
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#72
Damn!!!
This Kid Is Good....

The return of Alex Galchenyuk should certainly signal the sliding of Phillip Danault down the line up.
And, yes it did for a game or two.
But last night vs the Devs e saw Danault once again Center the 1st Line and the kid did not disappoint.

He keeps proving his worth, he keeps getting the job done.
Is anybody else as impress with Danault as I am?
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#73
I really like Danault and he's earned that sentiment. Beaulieu had the type of game, yesterday, that I'd like to see him,ay on a regular basis.

Can he? Or is the fact most teams aren't as bad as New Jersey complicate things for the young D?
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#74
Read an article yesterday that had LV's projected line up....
Guess who was on the card?
If you guessed Phillip Danault you would be correct...
If the author of the article thinks Phillip Danault, he/she should try and actually pay attention.
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#75
There is no way Bergevin does not protect Philip Danault, unless -- and nobody is mentioning him in talks -- Bergevin does the unexpected and uses Danault in a package to land a proven impact C as a replacement.

How valuable would the young Danault be in a trade package?
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#76
(8 hours ago)Scriptor Wrote: There is no way Bergevin does not protect Philip Danault, unless -- and nobody is mentioning him in talks -- Bergevin does the unexpected and uses Danault in a package to land a proven impact C as a replacement.

How valuable would the young Danault be in a trade package?

I don't think he's going anywhere but If he were traded it would have to be for that all around 2nd line centre that is more developed than he is.  Considering he's young, cheap, still improving and arguably a 2nd line centre in his own right I just don't see that happening. 
I think it's time to put Galchenyuk back with Radulov and pair Pacioretty with Danault on the second line.  Chucky and Radulov are noticeably better when they're on the ice together and I'd like to see what Danault does when matched up against lesser completion. 

Maybe

Byron- Galchenyuk- Radulov
Pacioretty-Danault- Shaw (till Gallagher gets back)
Lekhonen-Plekanec-Andighetto (Shaw)
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#77
(7 hours ago)labradorcongo Wrote:
(8 hours ago)Scriptor Wrote: There is no way Bergevin does not protect Philip Danault, unless -- and nobody is mentioning him in talks -- Bergevin does the unexpected and uses Danault in a package to land a proven impact C as a replacement.

How valuable would the young Danault be in a trade package?

I don't think he's going anywhere but If he were traded it would have to be for that all around 2nd line centre that is more developed than he is.  Considering he's young, cheap, still improving and arguably a 2nd line centre in his own right I just don't see that happening. 
I think it's time to put Galchenyuk back with Radulov and pair Pacioretty with Danault on the second line.  Chucky and Radulov are noticeably better when they're on the ice together and I'd like to see what Danault does when matched up against lesser completion. 

Maybe

Byron- Galchenyuk- Radulov
Pacioretty-Danault- Shaw (till Gallagher gets back)
Lekhonen-Plekanec-Andighetto (Shaw)

I like the idea, but I don't think that either Danault or Shaw possesses the offensive flare that Pacioretty needs on his line to make him successful.
Danault is coming into his own, partly due to playing with both Pacioretty and Radulov, as well as benefiting greatly from a gained confidence. (IMO)
Pacioretty needs Galchenyuk 
While both Galchenyuk and Radulov are substantially Better when on the same line.

If Gallagher were available it would make some difference....
I'd try:
Pacioretty - Danault - Gallagher 
Lehkonen - Galchenyuk - Radulov 
Byron - Plekanec - Shaw
Carr/DLR - Mitchell/DLR - Flynn/Ghetto
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#78
(8 hours ago)Scriptor Wrote: There is no way Bergevin does not protect Philip Danault, unless -- and nobody is mentioning him in talks -- Bergevin does the unexpected and uses Danault in a package to land a proven impact C as a replacement.

How valuable would the young Danault be in a trade package?

Good point....
A young Danault improving every game.
Danault Plus to Colorado.
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#79
I can see the value of a budding 2nd line C in Danault when considering a trade for a more established and (currently) more productive 2nd line C that costs more against the Cap.

It would maximize production during the current Cup window instead of waiting for Danault to mature some more. When/if Danault becomes a 25G, 50+ point 2nd line C, other players that are currently part of the core might be gone or on the decline.

A rebuilding team may want to, on the other hand, acquire promising, cheaper youngsters and draft picks in exchange for a couple of their expensive but talented core players that are at their peak.

COL, that may want to change the team dynamic and already has a fair amount of talented youngsters to build around, could be such a trade partner.
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