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TSN: Pitching will carry Blue Jays to AL East title
#21
While i think numbers are over rated and there is something about a prescence in a lineup. Just because you have a guy with 4.0 war doesnt mean you fill him with 2 players with 2 war each and all is the same. It might be intheory but there are intangibles, the way they are pitched to, their experience, their clutch hitting. Someone can put up great numbers in blowouts than choke in big games. Andrew wont agree tho so not much point stating it.

Regardless Ortiz is still a loss they will have to make up
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#22
The whole clutch hitting thing has been debated here a few times but the reality is that there's no evidence to suggest it's actually a skill.

However I wouldn't call "experience" an intangible per se. I think having major league reps under one's belt is a very valuable thing. Pitchers and hitters will make adjustments to each other over time and good players have a way of recognizing certain things sooner. Experience (ie. knowledge) can absolutely rub off on young players in a clubhouse too.

With regards to a single 4 WAR player vs. two 2 WAR players, context is key. Who is hitting behind the 4 WAR player? Is he replacement level? Because having a lineup where a 4 WAR and a 0 WAR player hit back-to-back is probably going to result in fewer runs than having a 2 WAR player followed by a 2 WAR player.
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#23
I like how he says "Andrew wont agree" as if I'm some outlier or something lol.

A more accurate statement would be "pretty much no team in baseball would agree".
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#24
(5 hours ago)Sportking Wrote: While i think numbers are over rated and there is something about a prescence in a lineup. Just because you have a guy with 4.0 war doesnt mean you fill him with 2 players with 2 war each and all is the same. It might be intheory but there are intangibles, the way they are pitched to, their experience, their clutch hitting. Someone can put up great numbers in blowouts than choke in big games. Andrew wont agree tho so not much point stating it.

Regardless Ortiz is still a loss they will have to make up



actually, the numbers say that is exactly what it means.

you lose some big numbers from one guy...but improvements in other areas spreads out the offense, and makes up for it.


Jays are hoping for that from Morales and Pearce, replacing EE.
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#25
(4 hours ago)Andrew Wrote: I like how he says "Andrew wont agree" as if I'm some outlier or something lol.

A more accurate statement would be "pretty much no team in baseball would agree".

Because you base everything off advanced stats which is not even what they are intended for. But you are incensed you are always right.

Why do scouts even go watch players when they can just read stats lol
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#26
(4 hours ago)Chris D Wrote:
(5 hours ago)Sportking Wrote: While i think numbers are over rated and there is something about a prescence in a lineup. Just because you have a guy with 4.0 war doesnt mean you fill him with 2 players with 2 war each and all is the same. It might be intheory but there are intangibles, the way they are pitched to, their experience, their clutch hitting. Someone can put up great numbers in blowouts than choke in big games. Andrew wont agree tho so not much point stating it.

Regardless Ortiz is still a loss they will have to make up



actually, the numbers say that is exactly what it means.

you lose some big numbers from one guy...but improvements in other areas spreads out the offense, and makes up for it.


Jays are hoping for that from Morales and Pearce, replacing EE.

You are taking two players from a completely different situation and comparing them to a different situation. Its relevant to an extent but its not a be all and end all. I ask you how confident are you with morales and pearce over Edwin. Most jays fans would say they would rather have edwin.

So then you ask why? Clutch hitting? More power? Consistency? Veteran leadership?
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#27
Popcorn
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#28
Once again i will post this article.....read it

https://www.google.ca/amp/www.fangraphs....d-for/amp/
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#29
Edwin provides offense that isn't replaced by Morales or Pearce...but if downgrading Edwin to Morales, means an increase in production at first by Pearce over Smoak (assuming Pearce is at first), then I think Morales and Pearce may actually work out better than Edwin and Smoak.

then you add the flexibility of being able to do more with the lineup, Pearce can play multiple positions, Smoak can now come off the bench and play when the lineup suits him more...Can have Morales play at first the odd day, Bautista can play DH, while Pearce takes the OF...they just may end up have a better lineup without EE, than with him.

balance is a thing too.
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#30
(4 hours ago)Sportking Wrote:
*FART NOISES*


As usual you are spouting nonsense that has zero connection to reality. It's too bad you crawled out from whatever hole you fell into, the forum was much nicer without your constant absurd claims.

I mean, the fact that you call things like "experience" and "the way they are pitched to" intangible is just hilarious.  intangible means something that cannot be measured or quantified. Experience and pitch selection is entirely tangible to anyone with an internet connection (or who can just count). Teams have been compiling detailed scouting reports on pitchers for 50 damn years!


Quote:Once again i will post this article.....read it

https://www.google.ca/amp/www.fangraphs....d-for/amp/

You should probably read it first because it does not say what you think it says and I seriously doubt Dave Cameron (the author) would support literally a single thing you have ever said about baseball.
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#31
(4 hours ago)Chris D Wrote: Edwin provides offense that isn't replaced by Morales or Pearce...but if downgrading Edwin to Morales, means an increase in production at first by Pearce over Smoak (assuming Pearce is at first), then I think Morales and Pearce may actually work out better than Edwin and Smoak.

then you add the flexibility of being able to do more with the lineup, Pearce can play multiple positions, Smoak can now come off the bench and play when the lineup suits him more...Can have Morales play at first the odd day, Bautista can play DH, while Pearce takes the OF...they just may end up have a better lineup without EE, than with him.

balance is a thing too.

Ill agree with that as well to an extent. You can offset production by spreading it out within your lineup however its also going to affect how teams pitch to you. What im saying tho is just because you take steve pearce who was a 2.0 war in baltimore and morales who was a 2 war in kc doesnt mean you can plug them into the jays lineup and they are going to replace a 4 war edwin. I dont know the numbers its just an example. They are all different situations and you are comparing apples to oranges
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#32
(4 hours ago)Andrew Wrote:
(4 hours ago)Sportking Wrote:
*FART NOISES*


As usual you are spouting nonsense that has zero connection to reality. It's too bad you crawled out from whatever hole you fell into, the forum was much nicer without your constant absurd claims.

I mean, the fact that you call things like "experience" and "the way they are pitched to" intangible is just hilarious.  intangible means something that cannot be measured or quantified. Experience and pitch selection is entirely tangible to anyone with an internet connection (or who can just count). Teams have been compiling detailed scouting reports on pitchers for 50 damn years!
Why do they need scouting reports they can just look at war thats all they need
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#33
(4 hours ago)Andrew Wrote:
(4 hours ago)Sportking Wrote:
*FART NOISES*


As usual you are spouting nonsense that has zero connection to reality. It's too bad you crawled out from whatever hole you fell into, the forum was much nicer without your constant absurd claims.

I mean, the fact that you call things like "experience" and "the way they are pitched to" intangible is just hilarious.  intangible means something that cannot be measured or quantified. Experience and pitch selection is entirely tangible to anyone with an internet connection (or who can just count). Teams have been compiling detailed scouting reports on pitchers for 50 damn years!


Quote:Once again i will post this article.....read it

https://www.google.ca/amp/www.fangraphs....d-for/amp/

You should probably read it first because it does not say what you think it says and I seriously doubt Dave Cameron (the author) would support literally a single thing you have ever said about baseball.

Lol so point proven you didnt read it. Probably because it goes against an opinion other than your own. Not a shocker really
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#34
(4 hours ago)Sportking Wrote: Why do they need scouting reports they can just look at war thats all they need

Because WAR has nothing to do with scouting reports and no one, anywhere thinks it does. There are completely different things with completely different purposes.

That is like asking "why do I need to go to the dentist when I could just go to China instead".  It makes absolutely no sense. One thing has no relevance to the other.


Quote:Lol so point proven you didnt read it. Probably because it goes against an opinion other than you own. Not a shocker really

I read it the day it came out ~4 years ago. The fact that you think a fangraphs article is some obscure find is just further proof you are clueless here. And AGAIN, it does not say what you seem to think it does.

Yeah, I'm done with this.
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#35
Says the guy that quotes fangraphs with every argument he has on here and uses war to win every discussion.

Lol
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