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Afternoon game today
#21
And Carrera pinch hits for Pearce? I don't think Pearce is in Gibby's good books. Plain
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#22
(2017-04-20, 02:11 PM)shadylane Wrote: And Carrera pinch hits for Pearce? I don't think Pearce is in Gibby's good books. Plain

I don't know if it's that, or he overvalues Carrera.

I don't mind it in this situation though, Kimbrel hasn't allowed a hit to a RHB yet, and lefties are hitting over .300 against him so far. Small sample size, but Morales hit lefty Silly
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#23
Yeah he does really like Carrera for some reason. I don't understand it. He's been below average in each of his seven seasons. Pearce's worst year by wRC+ in his last 5 seasons has been basically Carrera's "career" year. I put that in quotes because it was over just 48 games.

Carrera also has reverse splits for his career which makes Gibbons' use of him against righties even odder.
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#24
Extra innings....does not favour the Blue Jays.
In my defense, the moon was full and I was left unsupervised.
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#25
gawd dammit
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#26
Ugly inning for Grilli.
In my defense, the moon was full and I was left unsupervised.
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#27
Sooo.... replacing the guy AFTER he gives up 3 runs to lose the ball game?
I mean why?
This team is pretty difficult to like right now.
F ME I hate the RedSox....
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#28
(2017-04-20, 02:33 PM)lillypad_33 Wrote: Sooo.... replacing the guy AFTER he gives up 3 runs to lose the ball game?
I mean why?
This team is pretty difficult to like right now.
F ME I hate the RedSox....



well...it was 2 outs...they thought he could get the third out, so wasn't going to replace him BEFORE he gave up the hit

once he gave up the hit, the idea was to keep the score from getting worse.


unless you have a crystal ball, that can tell you when a pitcher is going to give up hits.
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#29
Grilli's one of the relievers they badly need to count on and he's just walking waaay too many in the early going.
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#30
I don't have much confidence in Grilli right now to be honest. Late last season and now the start to this season, close games, the Jays are quite often losing by the time he leaves the game. I thought he'd turned it around in the playoffs, he was phenomenal then (all 3.2 IP anyways, retired 11 of 12 batters he faced). Regular season has been another story unfortunately.


Since Aug 30 in the regular season


20 G 2-5 W-L 1/3 SVO 20 H 17 ER 13 BB 19 K 16.2 IP 9.18 ERA 1.98 WHIP


Even if you add the playoffs in

25 G 2-5 W-L 1/3 SVO 21 H 17 ER 13 BB 22 K 20.1 IP 7.52 ERA 1.67 WHIP
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#31
This team is gradually getting more & more depressing to watch.

I know there's still a lot of baseball to be played, but this team just doesn't have the proper mindset of a team that still thinks it can turn this around. They just don't look like it. And not having their best player in the lineup & now missing 2 of their starters in the rotation sure isn't helping, either.

Only ONE team - the 1951 New York Giants...yes, those 1951 New York Giants - has recovered from this bad a start to the season & still made the postseason. I'm just not seeing it right now with this ballclub.
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#32
Those are some ugly numbers for Grilli dating back a ways. I don't think it's bad luck either. Not enough whiffs, too many walks.

Oh well, look on the bright side. This series against the Sox took them from a .167 winning % up to .200! Baby steps!
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#33
(2017-04-20, 02:47 PM)thebest41587 Wrote: I don't have much confidence in Grilli right now to be honest. Late last season and now the start to this season, close games, the Jays are quite often losing by the time he leaves the game. I thought he'd turned it around in the playoffs, he was phenomenal then (all 3.2 IP anyways, retired 11 of 12 batters he faced). Regular season has been another story unfortunately.


Since Aug 30 in the regular season


20 G 2-5 W-L 1/3 SVO 20 H 17 ER 13 BB 19 K 16.2 IP 9.18 ERA 1.98 WHIP


Even if you add the playoffs in

25 G 2-5 W-L 1/3 SVO 21 H 17 ER 13 BB 22 K 20.1 IP 7.52 ERA 1.67 WHIP




those small sample sizes hurting a relievers numbers again.

the elevated ERA, is due to two bad appearances, where he gave up 4 runs in each.   He gave up 2 runs the rest of the month of Sept. 

in the playoffs...as you noted...he had an ERA of 0.00 in 5 appearances...with 1 H, 0BB, 3K in 3.2IP...pretty solid work when it mattered.
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#34
(2017-04-20, 04:05 PM)Chris D Wrote:
(2017-04-20, 02:47 PM)thebest41587 Wrote: I don't have much confidence in Grilli right now to be honest. Late last season and now the start to this season, close games, the Jays are quite often losing by the time he leaves the game. I thought he'd turned it around in the playoffs, he was phenomenal then (all 3.2 IP anyways, retired 11 of 12 batters he faced). Regular season has been another story unfortunately.


Since Aug 30 in the regular season


20 G 2-5 W-L 1/3 SVO 20 H 17 ER 13 BB 19 K 16.2 IP 9.18 ERA 1.98 WHIP


Even if you add the playoffs in

25 G 2-5 W-L 1/3 SVO 21 H 17 ER 13 BB 22 K 20.1 IP 7.52 ERA 1.67 WHIP




those small sample sizes hurting a relievers numbers again.

the elevated ERA, is due to two bad appearances, where he gave up 4 runs in each.   He gave up 2 runs the rest of the month of Sept. 

in the playoffs...as you noted...he had an ERA of 0.00 in 5 appearances...with 1 H, 0BB, 3K in 3.2IP...pretty solid work when it mattered.

Twice in twenty appearances. Not exactly small. That's roughly 1/3 of a season. If you give up 4 runs once every 10 times the entire season, you're probably going to be out of a job, or at least on a different, probably shittier team before the season is over.
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#35
the two bad appearances tend to outweigh the good appearances in that stretch though...not dismissing the appearances, but they do tend to skew things and make him look worse than he is.

had the two really bad appearances in September...but there were 8 that he didn't give up anything. and prior to the Aug 30 game where he took the loss, he gave up 5 runs in the previous 3 months...so its not 1/3 of the season....its 2 bad games, out of 46 appearances. VERY small. He doesn't give up 4 runs every 10 games. Two bad games, that make the rest of the month look it was shitty...when nothing is further from the truth.
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#36
No, it's 2 of his last 20 regular season appearances. 25 if you include the playoffs, which doesn't improve his numbers to anywhere near respectable still. 60 or so appearances is for a lot of relievers a full season, so you could say with the playoffs included, it's more like 40% of a season. You're the one skewing things. You're only as good as what you've done lately in professional sports when it comes to having a roster spot.


He's one of my favourite players, but he's down right stunk for awhile now. And at his age, questions start to arise.
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#37
I am skewing nothing. You are the one trying to paint 2 appearances as a sign of some sort of trend or something.

2 in 25 is supposed to be bad?

Two appearances, are just that...two appearances...and they drop his numbers down...because they were REALLY BAD appearances. Outside of that though...he has not...in any way...stunk.

...at least not until todays debacle...unfortunate 2 out hit bringing home 3 runs
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#38
Lol ok Chris. You believe that then.
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#39
....

no need to patronize...

are two appearances supposed to show a trend of anything?

around those 2 bad appearances in Sept, he pitched 8.1IP, giving up 2 runs, with 5BB. and 10K. Prior to that, in Aug, his ERA was 1.38, with a WHIP of .695, 17K, in 13IP, to 4BBs....July, ERA was 1.80, with WHIP of .500, 13K in 10IP, to 3BBs

so those 2 bad appearances in Sept, in 12 games, is a sign of him "stinking" for a while now?

come on.
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#40
Forget about the elevated ERA. It's not always meaningful with relief pitchers since as you noted, a couple bad starts can skew it even over many appearances.

What's concerning is his control. In 4 of his 7 appearances this season he's walked a batter. And since the start of 2016 his BB/9 has been worse than league average more than it's been better. That's not going to fly for a setup man in the AL East.

[Image: t4UHoTl.png]

One of the things that bothers me about Gibbons is that he seems really loyal to his pitchers but will shake up the batting order without hesitation. It took him forever to lose confidence last year in Chavez and Storen. I'm afraid he's going to do the same thing with Grilli now when it might behoove him to try someone like Loup or Smith in that role.
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