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Armchair GM Thread / Trade Deadline Thread
If the Leafs are forced to overpay both Marner and Matthews, they'll never win. To many players have to go bye bye and we will never be able to add quality players unless we hit big on drafting.
Don’t blame the butter for what the bread did
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(2019-01-11, 08:54 PM)WTTM Wrote: If the Leafs are forced to overpay both Marner and Matthews, they'll never win. To many players have to go bye bye and we will never be able to add quality players unless we hit big on drafting.

Perhaps. And don't kid yourself... I'm not entirely sure if it is overpaying, but it is what the RFA market will demand for these 22 year old kids being directed by their agents and the way that 30+ contracts have declined over the years $$$ wise.
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(2019-01-11, 08:45 PM)Trevorchef Wrote:
(2019-01-11, 08:38 PM)Sportking Wrote: Marner at 9.5
Matthew's at 11.5

Both on 7 yr deals get it done dubas

100% NO CHANCE that happens. NO CHANCE!!!

Go up a lot on both.

You are going to be surprised. Quit listening to the media scare tactics on how much these guys are gonna make.
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(2019-01-11, 09:00 PM)Trevorchef Wrote:
(2019-01-11, 08:54 PM)WTTM Wrote: If the Leafs are forced to overpay both Marner and Matthews, they'll never win. To many players have to go bye bye and we will never be able to add quality players unless we hit big on drafting.

Perhaps. And don't kid yourself... I'm not entirely sure if it is overpaying, but it is what the RFA market will demand for these 22 year old kids being directed by their agents and the way that 30+ contracts have declined over the years $$$ wise.

Kucherov is 25 and preforming better than Matthews at what $9.5, sure lets give Matthews $14M.
Can't do it, better off trading for a ransom, same for Marner and I do like both of these players.
Don’t blame the butter for what the bread did
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(2019-01-11, 09:09 PM)WTTM Wrote:
(2019-01-11, 09:00 PM)Trevorchef Wrote:
(2019-01-11, 08:54 PM)WTTM Wrote: If the Leafs are forced to overpay both Marner and Matthews, they'll never win. To many players have to go bye bye and we will never be able to add quality players unless we hit big on drafting.

Perhaps. And don't kid yourself... I'm not entirely sure if it is overpaying, but it is what the RFA market will demand for these 22 year old kids being directed by their agents and the way that 30+ contracts have declined over the years $$$ wise.

Kucherov is 25 and preforming better than Matthews at what $9.5, sure lets give Matthews $14M.
Can't do it, better off trading for a ransom, same for Marner and I do like both of these players.

Endorsement deals will be better in Toronto, more exposure etc. 

Not to mention the chance to win a cup in the city of Toronto. 

I think that is special to Matthews even as an American and I know its special to MM. They just have to look at a guy in the locker room who took a bit less to come to a great city and play hockey in JT. If its not important to them over a bit of money then we can trade them to Arizona. I guarantee they wont like it near as much.
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I'll put this on hold until these deals are actually signed. But, everyone and anyone thinking that Marner and Matthews will sign for less than 9.75 and 13.5 AAV respectively, are absolutely delusional IMO. It will happen.
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(2019-01-11, 09:14 PM)Trevorchef Wrote: I'll put this on hold until these deals are actually signed. But, everyone and anyone thinking that Marner and Matthews will sign for less than 9.75 and 13.5 AAV respectively, are absolutely delusional IMO. It will happen.

Matthews is not worth that much.
Don’t blame the butter for what the bread did
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(2019-01-11, 09:42 PM)WTTM Wrote:
(2019-01-11, 09:14 PM)Trevorchef Wrote: I'll put this on hold until these deals are actually signed. But, everyone and anyone thinking that Marner and Matthews will sign for less than 9.75 and 13.5 AAV respectively, are absolutely delusional IMO. It will happen.

Matthews is not worth that much.

Imagine what he thinks Rantanen will get. 15 million per ?? 

LOL

Honestly stop listening to Kypreos. The guy has taken too many shots to the head.
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You will see boys. You WILL see....
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(2019-01-11, 10:33 PM)Trevorchef Wrote: You will see boys. You WILL see....

I think you will be the one that will be seeing when they dont get that
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(2019-01-11, 06:29 PM)Trevorchef Wrote: Trading AM seems unthinkable to me. The asks would be enormous... That being said, and using Bo's Arizona example, here is some food for thought...

Arizona - Keller, Dvorak, Chychrun, Hayton.
Dallas - Seguin, Klingberg, Heiskanen.
Philadelphia - Patrick, Sanheim, Provorov, Hart.
Carolina - Svechnikov, Aho, Pesce.

Any takers there??? Feel free to add, subtract, multiply or divide.

This should be a trip... I may need a beer and some popcorn.  Wink

Sorry but, in my opinion, every single one of those are overpays - and I've been on record that Matthews is a top 5 offensive talent in this league with the only concern being he's missed material time with injury 2 years in a row.

Of note, I would also say those are all overpays for McDavid as well.
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Winterpeg could use a 3rd line center, TO could use more quality d-men;

Kadri for Morrissey

Kadri is Kadri and Morrissey is looking like a quality d-man, has some jam and is currently getting the 2nd most ATOI on Winnie while putting up decent to good numbers in every category.
If Gardiner goes TO will need a replacement and If Dermott doesn't develop into a top 4 d-man then TO would only have one of those next year.
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(2019-01-11, 11:26 PM)Pouzar Wrote:
(2019-01-11, 06:29 PM)Trevorchef Wrote: Trading AM seems unthinkable to me. The asks would be enormous... That being said, and using Bo's Arizona example, here is some food for thought...

Arizona - Keller, Dvorak, Chychrun, Hayton.
Dallas - Seguin, Klingberg, Heiskanen.
Philadelphia - Patrick, Sanheim, Provorov, Hart.
Carolina - Svechnikov, Aho, Pesce.

Any takers there??? Feel free to add, subtract, multiply or divide.

This should be a trip... I may need a beer and some popcorn.  Wink

Sorry but, in my opinion, every single one of those are overpays - and I've been on record that Matthews is a top 5 offensive talent in this league with the only concern being he's missed material time with injury 2 years in a row.

Of note, I would also say those are all overpays for McDavid as well.

Interesting. I would love to hear what you think a "Fair Price" for a player like that is. I'm not being a smarty pants, I'm legitimately curious to hear your thoughts at your convenience.
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(2019-01-12, 03:10 AM)hobster Wrote: Winterpeg could use a 3rd line center, TO could use more quality d-men;

Kadri for Morrissey

Kadri is Kadri and Morrissey is looking like a quality d-man, has some jam and is currently getting the 2nd most ATOI on Winnie while putting up decent to good numbers in every category.
If Gardiner goes TO will need a replacement and If Dermott doesn't develop into a top 4 d-man then TO would only have one of those next year.

And I get ripped for my proposals? LOL

Dermott is a top 4 LHD already and we have Rosen signed to a 1 way.

Kadri is not going anywhere. His value is lower this year due to being behind one of the best 1/2 CD in the league, but he’s still a very good #2 C on most teams in the league.

We spent the last 25 years with little to no center depth, trading Kadri makes our bottom 6 truly terrible.

No thanks.
O' for a good life, we just might have to weaken
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^^^ Kadri + Rielly are on contracts that most teams dream about..he is here till the end of it
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(2019-01-12, 11:27 AM)Trevorchef Wrote:
(2019-01-11, 11:26 PM)Pouzar Wrote:
(2019-01-11, 06:29 PM)Trevorchef Wrote: Trading AM seems unthinkable to me. The asks would be enormous... That being said, and using Bo's Arizona example, here is some food for thought...

Arizona - Keller, Dvorak, Chychrun, Hayton.
Dallas - Seguin, Klingberg, Heiskanen.
Philadelphia - Patrick, Sanheim, Provorov, Hart.
Carolina - Svechnikov, Aho, Pesce.

Any takers there??? Feel free to add, subtract, multiply or divide.

This should be a trip... I may need a beer and some popcorn.  Wink

Sorry but, in my opinion, every single one of those are overpays - and I've been on record that Matthews is a top 5 offensive talent in this league with the only concern being he's missed material time with injury 2 years in a row.

Of note, I would also say those are all overpays for McDavid as well.

Interesting. I would love to hear what you think a "Fair Price" for a player like that is. I'm not being a smarty pants, I'm legitimately curious to hear your thoughts at your convenience.

I'd have to think about it.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think those suggestions are egregious, and that might be the type of haul that it takes, however, in the cap era, where "value for cap hit" is so important, young pieces on ELCs and cheaper 1st RFA contracts are so valuable that giving up 4 such top-end pieces, personally, don't think that helps the team that is acquiring the Matthews or McDavid.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't trade McDavid for anything less than such a haul but I'm not so sure that type of haul doesn't help the Oilers more even though the loss of McDavid would be stunning.
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(2019-01-12, 12:04 PM)Pouzar Wrote:
(2019-01-12, 11:27 AM)Trevorchef Wrote:
(2019-01-11, 11:26 PM)Pouzar Wrote:
(2019-01-11, 06:29 PM)Trevorchef Wrote: Trading AM seems unthinkable to me. The asks would be enormous... That being said, and using Bo's Arizona example, here is some food for thought...

Arizona - Keller, Dvorak, Chychrun, Hayton.
Dallas - Seguin, Klingberg, Heiskanen.
Philadelphia - Patrick, Sanheim, Provorov, Hart.
Carolina - Svechnikov, Aho, Pesce.

Any takers there??? Feel free to add, subtract, multiply or divide.

This should be a trip... I may need a beer and some popcorn.  Wink

Sorry but, in my opinion, every single one of those are overpays - and I've been on record that Matthews is a top 5 offensive talent in this league with the only concern being he's missed material time with injury 2 years in a row.

Of note, I would also say those are all overpays for McDavid as well.

Interesting. I would love to hear what you think a "Fair Price" for a player like that is. I'm not being a smarty pants, I'm legitimately curious to hear your thoughts at your convenience.

I'd have to think about it.  

Don't get me wrong, I don't think those suggestions are egregious, and that might be the type of haul that it takes, however, in the cap era, where "value for cap hit" is so important, young pieces on ELCs and cheaper 1st RFA contracts are so valuable that giving up 4 such top-end pieces, personally, don't think that helps the team that is acquiring the Matthews or McDavid.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't trade McDavid for anything less than such a haul but I'm not so sure that type of haul doesn't help the Oilers more even though the loss of McDavid would be stunning.

That is a fair assessment. Think about it. I'll be around most likely.
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(2019-01-12, 12:04 PM)Pouzar Wrote:
(2019-01-12, 11:27 AM)Trevorchef Wrote:
(2019-01-11, 11:26 PM)Pouzar Wrote:
(2019-01-11, 06:29 PM)Trevorchef Wrote: Trading AM seems unthinkable to me. The asks would be enormous... That being said, and using Bo's Arizona example, here is some food for thought...

Arizona - Keller, Dvorak, Chychrun, Hayton.
Dallas - Seguin, Klingberg, Heiskanen.
Philadelphia - Patrick, Sanheim, Provorov, Hart.
Carolina - Svechnikov, Aho, Pesce.

Any takers there??? Feel free to add, subtract, multiply or divide.

This should be a trip... I may need a beer and some popcorn.  Wink

Sorry but, in my opinion, every single one of those are overpays - and I've been on record that Matthews is a top 5 offensive talent in this league with the only concern being he's missed material time with injury 2 years in a row.

Of note, I would also say those are all overpays for McDavid as well.

Interesting. I would love to hear what you think a "Fair Price" for a player like that is. I'm not being a smarty pants, I'm legitimately curious to hear your thoughts at your convenience.

I'd have to think about it.  

Don't get me wrong, I don't think those suggestions are egregious, and that might be the type of haul that it takes, however, in the cap era, where "value for cap hit" is so important, young pieces on ELCs and cheaper 1st RFA contracts are so valuable that giving up 4 such top-end pieces, personally, don't think that helps the team that is acquiring the Matthews or McDavid.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't trade McDavid for anything less than such a haul but I'm not so sure that type of haul doesn't help the Oilers more even though the loss of McDavid would be stunning.

I agree with you. I have seen very few trade proposals that could end up in reality.

I think fans who design trades are stuck between 2 eras. Ie. the era that dictated player x is a star and in the open market would ensure a kings ranson in return vs. The real value of player with his cap ramifications built in. It can’t be both ways. A players Contract can be considered gross and too much for a team——so why then would that player have trade value that amounted to excessive return that was part of the pre-cap era.

So long winded response but I agree with you Pouzar.
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The team that trades the best player always loses. Typically in most deals you would want either a star player coming back or a few good players coming back. In the cap world it's different and why drafting is so important because I think you want multiple controllable young players and 1 st round picks coming your way. Also the strength of the draft plays a role much more then it ever did before.
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In the end, I hate the system. You can have players you love but then deem expendable because you hate their cap hit. Then you can deal that player and be successful in getting good return, only to find the problem repeats itself and you have to look at a cap hit with your new acquisition.

The NHL is a system of parity and equalization. Well run operations eventually have to share with other teams their drafting and development skills.

The league does not care who gets the money. There is a pie and you can slice it up anyway you want. But if you bake a beautiful pie that is better than the others, you have to give some of your pie away. And this happens over and over again even if the other team never learns how to make a beautiful pie.
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