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As Presently Constructed, Can They Contend For Cup?
#61
This team, as constructed last season, was 20wins and 23 losses in the second half.  You want more sobering stats?  Okay, glad you asked.  We were 5 and freakin' 10 in the final 15 when the playoffs really began and teams were fighting for playoff spots.  Where does Babcock's responsibility lie amongst the key contributing factors to playing below 500 hockey?  Perhaps we can debate that?

Here are my top 10 reasons for Leaf failure in 2019:
Nylander's game went walkabout.
Matthews' injury.
Gardiner's injury.
Lack of NHL-ready depth.
Kadri's drop off.
Marleau's drop off.
Brown's offensive drop off.
Spark's loss of confidence.
Freddie's inability to steal enough games.
Babcock's inability to adapt to team adversity.
"To love life is to plant trees, under which shade you may never sit"
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Thanks given by: Trevorchef
#62
(2019-07-15, 05:11 AM)Arsenal Wrote: This team, as constructed last season, was 20wins and 23 losses in the second half.  You want more sobering stats?  Okay, glad you asked.  We were 5 and freakin' 10 in the final 15 when the playoffs really began and teams were fighting for playoff spots.  Where does Babcock's responsibility lie amongst the key contributing factors to playing below 500 hockey?  Perhaps we can debate that?

Here are my top 10 reasons for Leaf failure in 2019:
Nylander's game went walkabout.
Matthews' injury.
Gardiner's injury.
Lack of NHL-ready depth.
Kadri's drop off.
Marleau's drop off.
Brown's offensive drop off.
Spark's loss of confidence.
Freddie's inability to steal enough games.
Babcock's inability to adapt to team adversity.

All very solid points Arsenal. Most cannot be argued. I think that the Kadri suspension in round one had much more to do with the Leafs not advancing against Boston. That changed the look of the team offensively. 

I think Nylander's poor season resulted because he missed training camp and then the first two months of the season. By the time he looked up to speed again, he was slotted into that 3rd line role with two plugs, (Brown and Marleau), because Kadri was absent. That line really did not produce much offensively and the Bruins were able to focus on the top two lines exclusively and hold the offence in check.

Hindsight is 20/20 but, I really do think that the Leafs would've beaten Boston had Kadri not gotten his ass suspended. He was probably their best player in the first two games of that series. 

Having Gardiner playing with a messed up back was a disaster. He was a shadow of his former self. Hyman playing on a blown out knee was not optimal either to say the least. 

Sparks barely played at all down the stretch and Freddie played well enough that I don't see any issues there. 

Matthews being injured was a factor in the regular season but he was a beast in the post season. 

Bottom line for me, there were shortcomings leading up to and into the post season. But I do still believe that a healthy Leafs team with a full compliment of players wins that series in six games.
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#63
(2019-07-15, 08:22 AM)Trevorchef Wrote:
(2019-07-15, 05:11 AM)Arsenal Wrote: This team, as constructed last season, was 20wins and 23 losses in the second half.  You want more sobering stats?  Okay, glad you asked.  We were 5 and freakin' 10 in the final 15 when the playoffs really began and teams were fighting for playoff spots.  Where does Babcock's responsibility lie amongst the key contributing factors to playing below 500 hockey?  Perhaps we can debate that?

Here are my top 10 reasons for Leaf failure in 2019:
Nylander's game went walkabout.
Matthews' injury.
Gardiner's injury.
Lack of NHL-ready depth.
Kadri's drop off.
Marleau's drop off.
Brown's offensive drop off.
Spark's loss of confidence.
Freddie's inability to steal enough games.
Babcock's inability to adapt to team adversity.

All very solid points Arsenal. Most cannot be argued. I think that the Kadri suspension in round one had much more to do with the Leafs not advancing against Boston. That changed the look of the team offensively. 

I think Nylander's poor season resulted because he missed training camp and then the first two months of the season. By the time he looked up to speed again, he was slotted into that 3rd line role with two plugs, (Brown and Marleau), because Kadri was absent. That line really did not produce much offensively and the Bruins were able to focus on the top two lines exclusively and hold the offence in check.

Hindsight is 20/20 but, I really do think that the Leafs would've beaten Boston had Kadri not gotten his ass suspended. He was probably their best player in the first two games of that series. 

Having Gardiner playing with a messed up back was a disaster. He was a shadow of his former self. Hyman playing on a blown out knee was not optimal either to say the least. 

Sparks barely played at all down the stretch and Freddie played well enough that I don't see any issues there. 

Matthews being injured was a factor in the regular season but he was a beast in the post season. 

Bottom line for me, there were shortcomings leading up to and into the post season. But I do still believe that a healthy Leafs team with a full compliment of players wins that series in six games.

I find it funny that they lure JT to Toronto with the promise of playing with Marner, but they force their own superstar, Matthews, to play with lesser talent. They better put Nylander back with him for the year.
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#64
I would like to see Matthews and Nylander play a full season together. I would feel pretty good about this group heading into the playoffs...

Johnsson / Matthews / Nylander
Hyman / Tavares / Marner
Mikheyev / Kerfoot / Kapanen
Agostino / Spezza / Moore
Shore / Petan / Marchment / Bracco

Muzzin / Barrie
Rielly / Dermott
Borgman / Ceci
Sandin / Liljegren
Marincin / Holl

Andersen
Hutchinson

Adding some size and tenacity to the forward group and more defensive depth is always a good thing. Here's hoping they can do that somehow. 

The only wildcard for me, (broken record), is Coach.
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#65
(2019-07-15, 08:49 AM)Trevorchef Wrote: I would like to see Matthews and Nylander play a full season together. I would feel pretty good about this group heading into the playoffs...

Johnsson / Matthews / Nylander
Hyman / Tavares / Marner
Mikheyev / Kerfoot / Kapanen
Agostino / Spezza / Moore
Shore / Petan / Marchment / Bracco

Muzzin / Barrie
Rielly / Dermott
Borgman / Ceci
Sandin / Liljegren
Marincin / Holl

Andersen
Hutchinson

Adding some size and tenacity to the forward group and more defensive depth is always a good thing. Here's hoping they can do that somehow. 

The only wildcard for me, (broken record), is Coach.

Hey, I am positive Babs, Shanny and Dubas have met at length over the Summer.

We have to give him some benefit of the doubt that he will execute the strategies of the team and adjust.
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#66
(2019-07-15, 11:48 AM)CuttingEdge Wrote:
(2019-07-15, 08:49 AM)Trevorchef Wrote: I would like to see Matthews and Nylander play a full season together. I would feel pretty good about this group heading into the playoffs...

Johnsson / Matthews / Nylander
Hyman / Tavares / Marner
Mikheyev / Kerfoot / Kapanen
Agostino / Spezza / Moore
Shore / Petan / Marchment / Bracco

Muzzin / Barrie
Rielly / Dermott
Borgman / Ceci
Sandin / Liljegren
Marincin / Holl

Andersen
Hutchinson

Adding some size and tenacity to the forward group and more defensive depth is always a good thing. Here's hoping they can do that somehow. 

The only wildcard for me, (broken record), is Coach.

Hey, I am positive Babs, Shanny and Dubas have met at length over the Summer.

We have to give him some benefit of the doubt that he will execute the strategies of the team and adjust.

I did that before last season. Nothing changed. I don't expect it will have changed this year either. Here's hoping I'm wrong.
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#67
(2019-07-15, 08:22 AM)Trevorchef Wrote:
(2019-07-15, 05:11 AM)Arsenal Wrote: This team, as constructed last season, was 20wins and 23 losses in the second half.  You want more sobering stats?  Okay, glad you asked.  We were 5 and freakin' 10 in the final 15 when the playoffs really began and teams were fighting for playoff spots.  Where does Babcock's responsibility lie amongst the key contributing factors to playing below 500 hockey?  Perhaps we can debate that?

Here are my top 10 reasons for Leaf failure in 2019:
Nylander's game went walkabout.
Matthews' injury.
Gardiner's injury.
Lack of NHL-ready depth.
Kadri's drop off.
Marleau's drop off.
Brown's offensive drop off.
Spark's loss of confidence.
Freddie's inability to steal enough games.
Babcock's inability to adapt to team adversity.

All very solid points Arsenal. Most cannot be argued. I think that the Kadri suspension in round one had much more to do with the Leafs not advancing against Boston. That changed the look of the team offensively. 

I think Nylander's poor season resulted because he missed training camp and then the first two months of the season. By the time he looked up to speed again, he was slotted into that 3rd line role with two plugs, (Brown and Marleau), because Kadri was absent. That line really did not produce much offensively and the Bruins were able to focus on the top two lines exclusively and hold the offence in check.

Hindsight is 20/20 but, I really do think that the Leafs would've beaten Boston had Kadri not gotten his ass suspended. He was probably their best player in the first two games of that series. 

Having Gardiner playing with a messed up back was a disaster. He was a shadow of his former self. Hyman playing on a blown out knee was not optimal either to say the least. 

Sparks barely played at all down the stretch and Freddie played well enough that I don't see any issues there. 

Matthews being injured was a factor in the regular season but he was a beast in the post season. 

Bottom line for me, there were shortcomings leading up to and into the post season. But I do still believe that a healthy Leafs team with a full compliment of players wins that series in six games.
Thanks Trev.  Bottom line is I support Mike in his assessment that a key factor last season was lack of depth....and let's face it, Kyle elected not to make moves to acquire depth betting instead that Nylander would find his game and players would successfully return from injury.  IMO it was the correct decision. Aside from Spezza, it looks like depth will not be addressed this season either, so it'll come down to another trade deadline decision for Dubas.
"To love life is to plant trees, under which shade you may never sit"
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#68
(2019-07-16, 06:09 AM)Arsenal Wrote:
(2019-07-15, 08:22 AM)Trevorchef Wrote:
(2019-07-15, 05:11 AM)Arsenal Wrote: This team, as constructed last season, was 20wins and 23 losses in the second half.  You want more sobering stats?  Okay, glad you asked.  We were 5 and freakin' 10 in the final 15 when the playoffs really began and teams were fighting for playoff spots.  Where does Babcock's responsibility lie amongst the key contributing factors to playing below 500 hockey?  Perhaps we can debate that?

Here are my top 10 reasons for Leaf failure in 2019:
Nylander's game went walkabout.
Matthews' injury.
Gardiner's injury.
Lack of NHL-ready depth.
Kadri's drop off.
Marleau's drop off.
Brown's offensive drop off.
Spark's loss of confidence.
Freddie's inability to steal enough games.
Babcock's inability to adapt to team adversity.

All very solid points Arsenal. Most cannot be argued. I think that the Kadri suspension in round one had much more to do with the Leafs not advancing against Boston. That changed the look of the team offensively. 

I think Nylander's poor season resulted because he missed training camp and then the first two months of the season. By the time he looked up to speed again, he was slotted into that 3rd line role with two plugs, (Brown and Marleau), because Kadri was absent. That line really did not produce much offensively and the Bruins were able to focus on the top two lines exclusively and hold the offence in check.

Hindsight is 20/20 but, I really do think that the Leafs would've beaten Boston had Kadri not gotten his ass suspended. He was probably their best player in the first two games of that series. 

Having Gardiner playing with a messed up back was a disaster. He was a shadow of his former self. Hyman playing on a blown out knee was not optimal either to say the least. 

Sparks barely played at all down the stretch and Freddie played well enough that I don't see any issues there. 

Matthews being injured was a factor in the regular season but he was a beast in the post season. 

Bottom line for me, there were shortcomings leading up to and into the post season. But I do still believe that a healthy Leafs team with a full compliment of players wins that series in six games.
Thanks Trev.  Bottom line is I support Mike in his assessment that a key factor last season was lack of depth....and let's face it, Kyle elected not to make moves to acquire depth betting instead that Nylander would find his game and players would successfully return from injury.  IMO it was the correct decision. Aside from Spezza, it looks like depth will not be addressed this season either, so it'll come down to another trade deadline decision for Dubas.

We'll have to see how the depth is, I think it's too early to say.  

Have to see if guys like Shore, Petan, Marchment and Bracco on forward and Liljegren, Sandin on the back end can make an impact if given the chance but there looks to be some versatile bottom of the roster depth there with some guys who should be chomping at the bit.  I think it's better than last season and removing Brown and Marleau is addition by subtraction imo.  

It will be interesting to see what Babs does with the roster on the PK but guys who didn't get much of a look there last season will have to this season and there's some pieces that will have to be given a chance.  I hope Babs doesn't judge too quickly and leave these guys rotting in the press box all season, regular season is for figuring this stuff out and someone may surprise given an extended look.  Rotate them around and see if someone can earn themselves a permanent spot.
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#69
I think there is plenty of depth at least up front for the regular season.
It’s more if you want to add some veteran depth to cover injuries in the playoffs.
Babs clearly wasn’t comfortable with the likes of Borgman and Rosen when guys were injured.
If we had cap space now you could sign a McQuaid or Lovejoy rather than trading mid to late round picks at the deadline.
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#70
(2019-07-16, 08:43 AM)The Nemesis Wrote:
(2019-07-16, 06:09 AM)Arsenal Wrote:
(2019-07-15, 08:22 AM)Trevorchef Wrote:
(2019-07-15, 05:11 AM)Arsenal Wrote: This team, as constructed last season, was 20wins and 23 losses in the second half.  You want more sobering stats?  Okay, glad you asked.  We were 5 and freakin' 10 in the final 15 when the playoffs really began and teams were fighting for playoff spots.  Where does Babcock's responsibility lie amongst the key contributing factors to playing below 500 hockey?  Perhaps we can debate that?

Here are my top 10 reasons for Leaf failure in 2019:
Nylander's game went walkabout.
Matthews' injury.
Gardiner's injury.
Lack of NHL-ready depth.
Kadri's drop off.
Marleau's drop off.
Brown's offensive drop off.
Spark's loss of confidence.
Freddie's inability to steal enough games.
Babcock's inability to adapt to team adversity.

All very solid points Arsenal. Most cannot be argued. I think that the Kadri suspension in round one had much more to do with the Leafs not advancing against Boston. That changed the look of the team offensively. 

I think Nylander's poor season resulted because he missed training camp and then the first two months of the season. By the time he looked up to speed again, he was slotted into that 3rd line role with two plugs, (Brown and Marleau), because Kadri was absent. That line really did not produce much offensively and the Bruins were able to focus on the top two lines exclusively and hold the offence in check.

Hindsight is 20/20 but, I really do think that the Leafs would've beaten Boston had Kadri not gotten his ass suspended. He was probably their best player in the first two games of that series. 

Having Gardiner playing with a messed up back was a disaster. He was a shadow of his former self. Hyman playing on a blown out knee was not optimal either to say the least. 

Sparks barely played at all down the stretch and Freddie played well enough that I don't see any issues there. 

Matthews being injured was a factor in the regular season but he was a beast in the post season. 

Bottom line for me, there were shortcomings leading up to and into the post season. But I do still believe that a healthy Leafs team with a full compliment of players wins that series in six games.
Thanks Trev.  Bottom line is I support Mike in his assessment that a key factor last season was lack of depth....and let's face it, Kyle elected not to make moves to acquire depth betting instead that Nylander would find his game and players would successfully return from injury.  IMO it was the correct decision. Aside from Spezza, it looks like depth will not be addressed this season either, so it'll come down to another trade deadline decision for Dubas.

We'll have to see how the depth is, I think it's too early to say.  

Have to see if guys like Shore, Petan, Marchment and Bracco on forward and Liljegren, Sandin on the back end can make an impact if given the chance but there looks to be some versatile bottom of the roster depth there with some guys who should be chomping at the bit.  I think it's better than last season and removing Brown and Marleau is addition by subtraction imo.  

It will be interesting to see what Babs does with the roster on the PK but guys who didn't get much of a look there last season will have to this season and there's some pieces that will have to be given a chance.  I hope Babs doesn't judge too quickly and leave these guys rotting in the press box all season, regular season is for figuring this stuff out and someone may surprise given an extended look.  Rotate them around and see if someone can earn themselves a permanent spot.

That's what he does though. I do not see that changing. There were plenty of opportunities to get guys like Holl into games last year. He chose not to and then wasn't satisfied with his play when he was needed because of injury. Holl, Leivo, Carrick, etc were not "hockey players", they were "hockey practice'ers" under Babcock. Hard to expect them to be in game shape when they don't play any games.

Babcock cannot expect Team Canada to be handed to him. He needs to get the most out of the players that he is given. Letting them sit and playing favourites does not work. I hope Dubas shoves that down his throat this year. His lack of experimentation is staggeringly obvious. It is a huge flaw in his coaching style.
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#71
(2019-07-16, 11:52 AM)Trevorchef Wrote:
(2019-07-16, 08:43 AM)The Nemesis Wrote:
(2019-07-16, 06:09 AM)Arsenal Wrote:
(2019-07-15, 08:22 AM)Trevorchef Wrote:
(2019-07-15, 05:11 AM)Arsenal Wrote: This team, as constructed last season, was 20wins and 23 losses in the second half.  You want more sobering stats?  Okay, glad you asked.  We were 5 and freakin' 10 in the final 15 when the playoffs really began and teams were fighting for playoff spots.  Where does Babcock's responsibility lie amongst the key contributing factors to playing below 500 hockey?  Perhaps we can debate that?

Here are my top 10 reasons for Leaf failure in 2019:
Nylander's game went walkabout.
Matthews' injury.
Gardiner's injury.
Lack of NHL-ready depth.
Kadri's drop off.
Marleau's drop off.
Brown's offensive drop off.
Spark's loss of confidence.
Freddie's inability to steal enough games.
Babcock's inability to adapt to team adversity.

All very solid points Arsenal. Most cannot be argued. I think that the Kadri suspension in round one had much more to do with the Leafs not advancing against Boston. That changed the look of the team offensively. 

I think Nylander's poor season resulted because he missed training camp and then the first two months of the season. By the time he looked up to speed again, he was slotted into that 3rd line role with two plugs, (Brown and Marleau), because Kadri was absent. That line really did not produce much offensively and the Bruins were able to focus on the top two lines exclusively and hold the offence in check.

Hindsight is 20/20 but, I really do think that the Leafs would've beaten Boston had Kadri not gotten his ass suspended. He was probably their best player in the first two games of that series. 

Having Gardiner playing with a messed up back was a disaster. He was a shadow of his former self. Hyman playing on a blown out knee was not optimal either to say the least. 

Sparks barely played at all down the stretch and Freddie played well enough that I don't see any issues there. 

Matthews being injured was a factor in the regular season but he was a beast in the post season. 

Bottom line for me, there were shortcomings leading up to and into the post season. But I do still believe that a healthy Leafs team with a full compliment of players wins that series in six games.
Thanks Trev.  Bottom line is I support Mike in his assessment that a key factor last season was lack of depth....and let's face it, Kyle elected not to make moves to acquire depth betting instead that Nylander would find his game and players would successfully return from injury.  IMO it was the correct decision. Aside from Spezza, it looks like depth will not be addressed this season either, so it'll come down to another trade deadline decision for Dubas.

We'll have to see how the depth is, I think it's too early to say.  

Have to see if guys like Shore, Petan, Marchment and Bracco on forward and Liljegren, Sandin on the back end can make an impact if given the chance but there looks to be some versatile bottom of the roster depth there with some guys who should be chomping at the bit.  I think it's better than last season and removing Brown and Marleau is addition by subtraction imo.  

It will be interesting to see what Babs does with the roster on the PK but guys who didn't get much of a look there last season will have to this season and there's some pieces that will have to be given a chance.  I hope Babs doesn't judge too quickly and leave these guys rotting in the press box all season, regular season is for figuring this stuff out and someone may surprise given an extended look.  Rotate them around and see if someone can earn themselves a permanent spot.

That's what he does though. I do not see that changing. There were plenty of opportunities to get guys like Holl into games last year. He chose not to and then wasn't satisfied with his play when he was needed because of injury. Holl, Leivo, Carrick, etc were not "hockey players", they were "hockey practice'ers" under Babcock. Hard to expect them to be in game shape when they don't play any games.

Babcock cannot expect Team Canada to be handed to him. He needs to get the most out of the players that he is given. Letting them sit and playing favourites does not work. I hope Dubas shoves that down his throat this year. His lack of experimentation is staggeringly obvious. It is a huge flaw in his coaching style.

I understand the point you are making.

I am not defending him but it is notable that none of the guys that he has relegated to the so called Taxi squad has went on to any great success with teams they got moved too....ie. Those who got moved.
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#72
Couldn't agree more Trev, it's one of my biggest complaints/concerns about Babs. He complains we're not deep enough but he's gotta find a way to keep these perimeter players engaged and ready for battle. No ones asking him to put these guys in prime roles, just shuffle the bottom of the line-up around and keep them fresh. Gotta find away to utilize the cheap depth, especially with our cap issues.

Even finding something as seemingly inconsequential as a 4C could save us spending a 2nd round pick at the deadline and if a little experimentation at the bottom of the line-up ruins our season it's time to take a serious look at our core.
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#73
(2019-07-16, 12:02 PM)CuttingEdge Wrote:
(2019-07-16, 11:52 AM)Trevorchef Wrote:
(2019-07-16, 08:43 AM)The Nemesis Wrote:
(2019-07-16, 06:09 AM)Arsenal Wrote:
(2019-07-15, 08:22 AM)Trevorchef Wrote: All very solid points Arsenal. Most cannot be argued. I think that the Kadri suspension in round one had much more to do with the Leafs not advancing against Boston. That changed the look of the team offensively. 

I think Nylander's poor season resulted because he missed training camp and then the first two months of the season. By the time he looked up to speed again, he was slotted into that 3rd line role with two plugs, (Brown and Marleau), because Kadri was absent. That line really did not produce much offensively and the Bruins were able to focus on the top two lines exclusively and hold the offence in check.

Hindsight is 20/20 but, I really do think that the Leafs would've beaten Boston had Kadri not gotten his ass suspended. He was probably their best player in the first two games of that series. 

Having Gardiner playing with a messed up back was a disaster. He was a shadow of his former self. Hyman playing on a blown out knee was not optimal either to say the least. 

Sparks barely played at all down the stretch and Freddie played well enough that I don't see any issues there. 

Matthews being injured was a factor in the regular season but he was a beast in the post season. 

Bottom line for me, there were shortcomings leading up to and into the post season. But I do still believe that a healthy Leafs team with a full compliment of players wins that series in six games.
Thanks Trev.  Bottom line is I support Mike in his assessment that a key factor last season was lack of depth....and let's face it, Kyle elected not to make moves to acquire depth betting instead that Nylander would find his game and players would successfully return from injury.  IMO it was the correct decision. Aside from Spezza, it looks like depth will not be addressed this season either, so it'll come down to another trade deadline decision for Dubas.

We'll have to see how the depth is, I think it's too early to say.  

Have to see if guys like Shore, Petan, Marchment and Bracco on forward and Liljegren, Sandin on the back end can make an impact if given the chance but there looks to be some versatile bottom of the roster depth there with some guys who should be chomping at the bit.  I think it's better than last season and removing Brown and Marleau is addition by subtraction imo.  

It will be interesting to see what Babs does with the roster on the PK but guys who didn't get much of a look there last season will have to this season and there's some pieces that will have to be given a chance.  I hope Babs doesn't judge too quickly and leave these guys rotting in the press box all season, regular season is for figuring this stuff out and someone may surprise given an extended look.  Rotate them around and see if someone can earn themselves a permanent spot.

That's what he does though. I do not see that changing. There were plenty of opportunities to get guys like Holl into games last year. He chose not to and then wasn't satisfied with his play when he was needed because of injury. Holl, Leivo, Carrick, etc were not "hockey players", they were "hockey practice'ers" under Babcock. Hard to expect them to be in game shape when they don't play any games.

Babcock cannot expect Team Canada to be handed to him. He needs to get the most out of the players that he is given. Letting them sit and playing favourites does not work. I hope Dubas shoves that down his throat this year. His lack of experimentation is staggeringly obvious. It is a huge flaw in his coaching style.

I understand the point you are making.

I am not defending him but it is notable that none of the guys that he has relegated to the so called Taxi squad has went on to any great success with teams they got moved too....ie. Those who got moved.

Good point but a feel it's only a matter of time before we ship out the wrong guy.
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#74
(2019-07-16, 12:16 PM)The Nemesis Wrote:
(2019-07-16, 12:02 PM)CuttingEdge Wrote:
(2019-07-16, 11:52 AM)Trevorchef Wrote:
(2019-07-16, 08:43 AM)The Nemesis Wrote:
(2019-07-16, 06:09 AM)Arsenal Wrote: Thanks Trev.  Bottom line is I support Mike in his assessment that a key factor last season was lack of depth....and let's face it, Kyle elected not to make moves to acquire depth betting instead that Nylander would find his game and players would successfully return from injury.  IMO it was the correct decision. Aside from Spezza, it looks like depth will not be addressed this season either, so it'll come down to another trade deadline decision for Dubas.

We'll have to see how the depth is, I think it's too early to say.  

Have to see if guys like Shore, Petan, Marchment and Bracco on forward and Liljegren, Sandin on the back end can make an impact if given the chance but there looks to be some versatile bottom of the roster depth there with some guys who should be chomping at the bit.  I think it's better than last season and removing Brown and Marleau is addition by subtraction imo.  

It will be interesting to see what Babs does with the roster on the PK but guys who didn't get much of a look there last season will have to this season and there's some pieces that will have to be given a chance.  I hope Babs doesn't judge too quickly and leave these guys rotting in the press box all season, regular season is for figuring this stuff out and someone may surprise given an extended look.  Rotate them around and see if someone can earn themselves a permanent spot.

That's what he does though. I do not see that changing. There were plenty of opportunities to get guys like Holl into games last year. He chose not to and then wasn't satisfied with his play when he was needed because of injury. Holl, Leivo, Carrick, etc were not "hockey players", they were "hockey practice'ers" under Babcock. Hard to expect them to be in game shape when they don't play any games.

Babcock cannot expect Team Canada to be handed to him. He needs to get the most out of the players that he is given. Letting them sit and playing favourites does not work. I hope Dubas shoves that down his throat this year. His lack of experimentation is staggeringly obvious. It is a huge flaw in his coaching style.

I understand the point you are making.

I am not defending him but it is notable that none of the guys that he has relegated to the so called Taxi squad has went on to any great success with teams they got moved too....ie. Those who got moved.

Good point but a feel it's only a matter of time before we ship out the wrong guy.

Agreed.

Dont get me wrong, I have been left uncomfortable with how long guys sit.
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#75
Leivo might be the only one he could have kept at least for depth.
I wasn't really that high on him, however, it definitely doesn't help our trading position if he never plays these guys.
It certainly kicks the hell out of their confidence with the way he treats them

And the player he was traded for Carcone has since been traded. ( oh well)
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#76
A famous quote from professional soccer goes something like this, "The second team may win, the first team must win."

The saying implies that it's Babcock's job to win, it's keefe's job to develop.  I don't care who sits out, or for how long, as long as the Leafs win.
"To love life is to plant trees, under which shade you may never sit"
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#77
You are right for sure.
However Babcock didn't win the second half of last year as you stated before.
We cant always blame players and lack of depth.
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#78
(2019-07-16, 03:05 PM)Arsenal Wrote: A famous quote from professional soccer goes something like this, "The second team may win, the first team must win."

The saying implies that it's Babcock's job to win, it's keefe's job to develop.  I don't care who sits out, or for how long, as long as the Leafs win.

I care if it's ruining the development of a player.
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#79
Still feel we need to add a d-man for the 3rd pairing.  With Dermott out for the first month or two we're looking at 2 of Harpur Borgman Marincin Gravel Holl in the starting 6.  That's a pretty scary thought.  Even when he gets back I don't want any of them in the top 6 IMO.


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#80
Agree, I'd like to see one more heavy, mobile guy back there in spot 6.
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