Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Future Habs Lines
#1
I was projecting a time in the not too distant future (three years, maybe 4) where Kotkaniemi would be an entrenched top-6 C, maybe even a top end #1C.

I was really wondering who would be ideal line mates for the Finn. I mean, we would need a scoring winger that could anticipate some of the plays that KK would be capable of making. We would also need at least one element of speed and playmaking on the wings to enable KK to exploit his heavy wrist shot.

I vote for this:

Domi - KK - Suzuki

I see a lot of playmaking from LW and C feeding the RW and plenty of playmaking from the RW and C feeding the LW, plus playmaking form both wings feeding the C.

Both Suzuki and KK see the play unfold at a level that could make them excellent complementary players, especially since Suzuki could be a legitimate trigger whilst still being a double threat with his hockey IQ and playmaking skills.

Neither are extremely fast on skates (but still decent skaters), but at their peak, both will have the rare ability of slowing down the game and speeding it up again with unexpected passes.

Domi would be the ideal partner to round out the line, IMO, because he adds both speed and grit to compensate for Suzuki who is a slower, more cerebral player. Domi's defensive awareness could provide the speed on the back check to be the first one back. His playmaking ability could serve the line well with Domi using his speed to gain the O-zone on counter attacks and setting up as his line partners gain the zone.

Who do you think would be good partners for Kotkaniemi, down the line, in a greater role on this roster?
Ancient Chinese Proverb: A mosquito landing on your testicle should help you realize that violence doesn't solve every problem
Reply
Thanks given by:
#2
A true elite number 1 center is gonna make his wingers, if the Eagle Peninsula is truly a first line pivot it won't matter who plays wing, the line will dominate with him leading the charge. And if he isn't ....then we're back to square one and Le Clown needs to be drawn and quartered.

But it is fun to think about the future, particularly if our powerplay keeps sucking and we keep losing (fingers crossed) and drop the hell out of the playoff picture. Then we draft Spencer Knight and trade Carey's grossly overrated ass while it still has some value, bring back a couple of A level defence prospects, sit back and watch Bouillon develop and cultivate our youngsters into stars and by the time Trump is finishing up his second term in office....we have ourselves a legit cup contender ready to dethrone the mighty Leafs.

....oh and sign Mark Stone
Reply
Thanks given by:
#3
It's much easier to predict who is still on this team 4 years from now. I don't think more than 6 players !
1:Price
2:Weber
3:Kk
4:Lehkonen
5: Domi
6:Galley.
________________________________
NRA :  Narcissist Redneck Asses
Reply
Thanks given by:
#4
I predict the Habs try to resurrect the power of K.

They have Kotkaniemi and Kulak already.


Need to return to the glory days of

Kovlalev, Koivu, Kostitsyn, Kostitsyn, Kostopoulos and Komisarek from 2007-08.
Reply
Thanks given by:
#5
Man, you're all depressing. Thanks for participating.

@Faceman.

While you're right that a truly dominant #1C will make his wingers, I doubt anyone actually feels like the ceiling for Kotkaniemi is or should be that of Mario Lemieux where wingers who can't score will suddenly be 50-Goal scorers beside the Finn.

Beyond that, you can enjoy your dreams of continued crapitude (I use continued because we can all agree that there has been a fair share of that over the last 25 years, even if I don't agree that we are doomed to stay that course without having the bottom fall out for under us).

@ari

If I recall correctly, you're not a fan of Drouin, so I see why he wouldn't be there on that list for you (I could be wrong).

The question of who will still be around in 4 years is entirely legitimate, IMO. Given the relative youth of the team, let's look at the real candidates to still be around in 4 years, as well as their ages then:

1) Gallagher (signed up to age 28) will definitely be re-signed (or MON will try, at least) as he will still be in his prime at the end of two more years beyond this one when his contract is up.

2) Drouin (signed up to age 27), barring a trade, will still be here in four years as it will be the final year of his current contract. He will also be in his prime at the time of the contract renewal. His production until then -- and especially his consistency -- will determine how strong Habs management is on Drouin and whether he will become trade fodder between now and then.

3) Domi is signed until the end of next year (signed until the age of 24) and should be re-signed for more than three years, as a RFA, to keep the cost of his next contract down. MON will definitely want to buy UFA years. How many remains to be seen, but he should still be a Hab in four years.

4) Lehkonen is signed to the end of this year (signed to the age of 23). The amount of term on Lehkonen's next contract will surely depend on the Cap hit and the term associated to it. Lehkonen has proven to be a complementary player (not a core player) and negotiations should be entered on that. IMO, he should still be around.

5) Kotkaniemi (signed until age 21)... If he's not still around, there's a serious problem, considering that Galchenyuk was around for 6 years (I think).

6) Danault is signed for another two years beyond this one (signed until age 27) and will still be in his prime when his contract is up. He'll be an UFA this time around and his demands should determine whether he sticks around or not as a depth C (3rd line C at best). His necessary play as the current #2C doesn't bode well for the next contract negotiations where he should have the stats to command a higher salary than the current 3M or os per season. Imo, Danault could get traded because of his demands, but he might well still be around for another contract (three or four year term).

7) Price is signed for another 7 years beyond this one (signed until age 38) and has a complete NMC. Barring serious injury that forces him into retirement, Price should still be here in four years.

8) Weber is also signed for another 7 years (signed util age 40) and, in 4 years, will only get paid 3M in real dollars. The final three years of his contract after that will only pay him 1M per year in real money. Whether weber is still around will depend, IMO, on how close we are to competing for a Cup. If MON is still a middle-of-the-road team, I doubt that Weber will want to go through the hardships of a regular season for such little money.

9 & 10) Victor Mete and Noah Juulsen will both be RFAs coming off their ELC after next season. Barring a trade, they should still be around in four years, if only as depth Ds.

Petry and Tatar are question marks in four years.

If MON doesn't want to re-sign Petry in two years when his current contract is up, they better trade him while his value is at its highest.

Tatar has the same timeline for a contract renewal. If MON doesn't want to re-sig him as a 30-yr old UFA, they should also move him out while his value is at its highest on the trade front.

Byron might still be around as he would be in the last year of his current contract. He'd be an ideal candidate to move as a rental come trade deadline, unless MON is in a hunt for a deep playoff run. At which point, Byron would remain an interesting role player as a depth option.
Ancient Chinese Proverb: A mosquito landing on your testicle should help you realize that violence doesn't solve every problem
Reply
Thanks given by:
#6
There are so many question marks around the development of players who we see as key. It’s always been that way. I remember Habs fans seeing Kyle Chipchura as the next Captain for the Habs.

I am excited about the early potential shown by Kotkaniemi, especially considering he is quite undersized. I consider him a key piece of the future along with Domi, Gallagher, Price and Weber. I don’t think Petry will be traded until it’s too late. There are some potential big-upside positives if development continues. I hadn’t included Drouin because of his inconsistency to date but he could become a very good player if he became more focussed. Juulssen could be very good one day and there is much hope for Suzuki and Poehling. In the end, it will come down to player development and coaching.
Reply
Thanks given by:
#7
(2019-01-14, 12:01 PM)GloryYrs70s Wrote: There are so many question marks around the development of players who we see as key.  It’s always been that way.  I remember Habs fans seeing Kyle Chipchura as the next Captain for the Habs.  

I am excited about the early potential shown by Kotkaniemi, especially considering he is quite undersized.  I consider him a key piece of the future along with Domi, Gallagher, Price and Weber.  I don’t think Petry will be traded until it’s too late.  There are some potential big-upside positives if development continues.  I hadn’t included Drouin because of his inconsistency to date but he could become a very good player if he became more focussed.  Juulssen could be very good one day and there is much hope for Suzuki and Poehling.  In the end, it will come down to player development and coaching.

As always. I feel much better about development and coaching considering Bouchard and Ducharme. Unfortunately, Ju-jube is still around for a while...
Ancient Chinese Proverb: A mosquito landing on your testicle should help you realize that violence doesn't solve every problem
Reply
Thanks given by:
#8
Just for fun of it..Here is your Montreal Canadiens in 2013-2014.According to hockey reference.
And they got 100 points with 46 wins.
Only two player still here.Price and Gallagher.
If we have more than 10 player from this current roster in 2023; it is a good sign.i guess.Some stability.


No. Player
40 Nathan Beaulieu
45 Mike Blunden
55 Francis Bouillon
49 Michael Bournival
17 Rene Bourque
48 Daniel Briere
30 Peter Budaj
51 David Desharnais
61 Raphael Diaz
37 Gabriel Dumont
81 Lars Eller
74 Alexei Emelin
27 Alex Galchenyuk
11 Brendan Gallagher
21 Brian Gionta ©
26 Josh Gorges
82 Patrick Holland
71 Louis Leblanc
79 Andrei Markov
32 Travis Moen
6 Douglas Murray
28 Joonas Nattinen
67 Max Pacioretty
15 George Parros
14 Tomas Plekanec
31 Carey Price
8 Brandon Prust
57 Martin St. Pierre
76 P.K. Subban
60 Christian Thomas
24 Jarred Tinordi
35 Dustin Tokarski
20 Thomas Vanek
43 Mike Weaver
22 Dale Weise
53 Ryan White
________________________________
NRA :  Narcissist Redneck Asses
Reply
Thanks given by:
#9
(2019-01-14, 12:01 PM)GloryYrs70s Wrote: There are so many question marks around the development of players who we see as key.  It’s always been that way.  I remember Habs fans seeing Kyle Chipchura as the next Captain for the Habs.  

I am excited about the early potential shown by Kotkaniemi, especially considering he is quite undersized.  I consider him a key piece of the future along with Domi, Gallagher, Price and Weber.  I don’t think Petry will be traded until it’s too late.  There are some potential big-upside positives if development continues.  I hadn’t included Drouin because of his inconsistency to date but he could become a very good player if he became more focussed.  Juulssen could be very good one day and there is much hope for Suzuki and Poehling.  In the end, it will come down to player development and coaching.

There have been a few instances that comes to mind about players who I wish had been managed differently for sure.  I do believe that as fans we sometimes put too much of the development responsibility on the staff.  Most of this teams 1st rounders that haven't panned out were late 1st round picks.  That means that they were a gamble to begin with.  When you compare MTL's success with those late picks they are pretty much on par with the rest of the league.  The problem is that sometimes as fans we hear "top 6 potential" and we stop listening.  If a talented player slips that far then there are always holes in his game.  Sometimes they can work it out and other times not so much.
IMO this organisations biggest weakness in regards to young prospects is not recognizing when a player is not going to reach his potential before everyone else does and getting good return on him.  I suppose that is at least partly the responsibility of the folks in charge of development but not entirely.  Sabastien Colberg is a good example of when it's done properly.  Unfortunately, the List of players that the return was much less or nothing at all is much longer.
Reply
Thanks given by:
#10
(2019-01-14, 12:21 PM)ari Wrote: Just for fun of it..Here is your Montreal Canadiens in 2013-2014.According to hockey reference.
And they got 100 points with 46 wins.
Only two player still here.Price and Gallagher.
If we  have more than 10 player from this current roster in 2023; it is a good sign.i guess.Some stability.


No. Player
40 Nathan Beaulieu
45 Mike Blunden
55 Francis Bouillon
49 Michael Bournival
17 Rene Bourque
48 Daniel Briere
30 Peter Budaj
51 David Desharnais
61 Raphael Diaz
37 Gabriel Dumont
81 Lars Eller
74 Alexei Emelin
27 Alex Galchenyuk
11 Brendan Gallagher
21 Brian Gionta ©
26 Josh Gorges
82 Patrick Holland
71 Louis Leblanc
79 Andrei Markov
32 Travis Moen
6 Douglas Murray
28 Joonas Nattinen
67 Max Pacioretty
15 George Parros
14 Tomas Plekanec
31 Carey Price
8 Brandon Prust
57 Martin St. Pierre
76 P.K. Subban
60 Christian Thomas
24 Jarred Tinordi
35 Dustin Tokarski
20 Thomas Vanek
43 Mike Weaver
22 Dale Weise
53 Ryan White

Only 8 are still in the league. I think Vanek is still in the league... but it could be 7... 

Beaulieu
Eller
Galchenyuk
Gallagher
Pacioretty
Price
Subban
Vanek
Reply
Thanks given by:
#11
(2019-01-14, 12:21 PM)ari Wrote: Just for fun of it..Here is your Montreal Canadiens in 2013-2014.According to hockey reference.
And they got 100 points with 46 wins.
Only two player still here.Price and Gallagher.
If we  have more than 10 player from this current roster in 2023; it is a good sign.i guess.Some stability.


No. Player
40 Nathan Beaulieu
45 Mike Blunden
55 Francis Bouillon
49 Michael Bournival
17 Rene Bourque
48 Daniel Briere
30 Peter Budaj
51 David Desharnais
61 Raphael Diaz
37 Gabriel Dumont
81 Lars Eller
74 Alexei Emelin
27 Alex Galchenyuk
11 Brendan Gallagher
21 Brian Gionta ©
26 Josh Gorges
82 Patrick Holland
71 Louis Leblanc
79 Andrei Markov
32 Travis Moen
6 Douglas Murray
28 Joonas Nattinen
67 Max Pacioretty
15 George Parros
14 Tomas Plekanec
31 Carey Price
8 Brandon Prust
57 Martin St. Pierre
76 P.K. Subban
60 Christian Thomas
24 Jarred Tinordi
35 Dustin Tokarski
20 Thomas Vanek
43 Mike Weaver
22 Dale Weise
53 Ryan White

Such an underwhelming team on paper, middling offence, and still managed 46 wins and 100 points.  Amazing. 

Since then, Bergevin has managed to infuse better CHaracter with worse results.  

Wow.
Reply
Thanks given by:
#12
(2019-01-14, 12:21 PM)ari Wrote: Just for fun of it..Here is your Montreal Canadiens in 2013-2014.According to hockey reference.
And they got 100 points with 46 wins.
Only two player still here.Price and Gallagher.
If we  have more than 10 player from this current roster in 2023; it is a good sign.i guess.Some stability.


No. Player
40 Nathan Beaulieu
45 Mike Blunden
55 Francis Bouillon
49 Michael Bournival
17 Rene Bourque
48 Daniel Briere
30 Peter Budaj
51 David Desharnais
61 Raphael Diaz
37 Gabriel Dumont
81 Lars Eller
74 Alexei Emelin
27 Alex Galchenyuk
11 Brendan Gallagher
21 Brian Gionta ©
26 Josh Gorges
82 Patrick Holland
71 Louis Leblanc
79 Andrei Markov
32 Travis Moen
6 Douglas Murray
28 Joonas Nattinen
67 Max Pacioretty
15 George Parros
14 Tomas Plekanec
31 Carey Price
8 Brandon Prust
57 Martin St. Pierre
76 P.K. Subban
60 Christian Thomas
24 Jarred Tinordi
35 Dustin Tokarski
20 Thomas Vanek
43 Mike Weaver
22 Dale Weise
53 Ryan White

would be so interesting to see what % of player in the league are still with their same team from that year. and the pattern of every 5 yrs, how many players change teams.(not to prove any point, just I find that stuff interesting to see). too bad I actually have a paying job that stops me from being on here all day to look up this type of info...oh wait....
Reply
Thanks given by:
#13
(2019-01-14, 12:33 PM)labradorcongo Wrote:
(2019-01-14, 12:01 PM)GloryYrs70s Wrote: There are so many question marks around the development of players who we see as key.  It’s always been that way.  I remember Habs fans seeing Kyle Chipchura as the next Captain for the Habs.  

I am excited about the early potential shown by Kotkaniemi, especially considering he is quite undersized.  I consider him a key piece of the future along with Domi, Gallagher, Price and Weber.  I don’t think Petry will be traded until it’s too late.  There are some potential big-upside positives if development continues.  I hadn’t included Drouin because of his inconsistency to date but he could become a very good player if he became more focussed.  Juulssen could be very good one day and there is much hope for Suzuki and Poehling.  In the end, it will come down to player development and coaching.

There have been a few instances that comes to mind about players who I wish had been managed differently for sure.  I do believe that as fans we sometimes put too much of the development responsibility on the staff.  Most of this teams 1st rounders that haven't panned out were late 1st round picks.  That means that they were a gamble to begin with.  When you compare MTL's success with those late picks they are pretty much on par with the rest of the league.  The problem is that sometimes as fans we hear "top 6 potential" and we stop listening.  If a talented player slips that far then there are always holes in his game.  Sometimes they can work it out and other times not so much.
IMO this organisations biggest weakness in regards to young prospects is not recognizing when a player is not going to reach his potential before everyone else does and getting good return on him.  I suppose that is at least partly the responsibility of the folks in charge of development but not entirely.  Sabastien Colberg is a good example of when it's done properly.  Unfortunately, the List of players that the return was much less or nothing at all is much longer.

Very good post Lab

Most of this teams 1st rounders that haven't panned out were late 1st round picks.  That means that they were a gamble to begin with.  When you compare MTL's success with those late picks they are pretty much on par with the rest of the league. [i][/i]

Unfortunately many fans refuse to understand this fact.

There is a lot of talk these days about development and our draft cause we fans are hopeful for the future...yet fearful due to past results. I think most of us expected too much in the past, and therefore now are just saying....show me before I believe that any of these guys will even make the nhl let alone be a core player for us.

But hopefully this has taught us to be more mindful of our expectations instead of just assuming gloom and doom.

I think the art of drafting has changed, I think the information we have on these guys is a lot more to help us have better expectations. For me, I see a few of our prospects doing REALLY well vrs their peers and I rejoice and expect it to continue in higher levels. I think in the past either the info wasn't there, or we didn't want to see the truth about what we were seeing develop before us. Cause for some of us a 1st round pick should always = stud, no matter if reality says that's not the fact in the NHL.

As for projecting future lines....how many years ahead are we talking? Obviously it's not a fun exercise for some cause really it's impossible to know who will be here in the future, as stated by other above
Reply
Thanks given by:
#14
(2019-01-14, 12:42 PM)Guy Smiley Wrote:
(2019-01-14, 12:21 PM)ari Wrote: Just for fun of it..Here is your Montreal Canadiens in 2013-2014.According to hockey reference.
And they got 100 points with 46 wins.
Only two player still here.Price and Gallagher.
If we  have more than 10 player from this current roster in 2023; it is a good sign.i guess.Some stability.


No. Player
40 Nathan Beaulieu
45 Mike Blunden
55 Francis Bouillon
49 Michael Bournival
17 Rene Bourque
48 Daniel Briere
30 Peter Budaj
51 David Desharnais
61 Raphael Diaz
37 Gabriel Dumont
81 Lars Eller
74 Alexei Emelin
27 Alex Galchenyuk
11 Brendan Gallagher
21 Brian Gionta ©
26 Josh Gorges
82 Patrick Holland
71 Louis Leblanc
79 Andrei Markov
32 Travis Moen
6 Douglas Murray
28 Joonas Nattinen
67 Max Pacioretty
15 George Parros
14 Tomas Plekanec
31 Carey Price
8 Brandon Prust
57 Martin St. Pierre
76 P.K. Subban
60 Christian Thomas
24 Jarred Tinordi
35 Dustin Tokarski
20 Thomas Vanek
43 Mike Weaver
22 Dale Weise
53 Ryan White

Only 8 are still in the league. I think Vanek is still in the league... but it could be 7... 

Beaulieu
Eller
Galchenyuk
Gallagher
Pacioretty
Price
Subban
Vanek

And Josh Gorges retired today..Good Soldier with load of Character. 
________________________________
NRA :  Narcissist Redneck Asses
Reply
Thanks given by: labradorcongo
#15
(2019-01-14, 01:02 PM)Haba-daba-do Wrote:
(2019-01-14, 12:33 PM)labradorcongo Wrote:
(2019-01-14, 12:01 PM)GloryYrs70s Wrote: There are so many question marks around the development of players who we see as key.  It’s always been that way.  I remember Habs fans seeing Kyle Chipchura as the next Captain for the Habs.  

I am excited about the early potential shown by Kotkaniemi, especially considering he is quite undersized.  I consider him a key piece of the future along with Domi, Gallagher, Price and Weber.  I don’t think Petry will be traded until it’s too late.  There are some potential big-upside positives if development continues.  I hadn’t included Drouin because of his inconsistency to date but he could become a very good player if he became more focussed.  Juulssen could be very good one day and there is much hope for Suzuki and Poehling.  In the end, it will come down to player development and coaching.

There have been a few instances that comes to mind about players who I wish had been managed differently for sure.  I do believe that as fans we sometimes put too much of the development responsibility on the staff.  Most of this teams 1st rounders that haven't panned out were late 1st round picks.  That means that they were a gamble to begin with.  When you compare MTL's success with those late picks they are pretty much on par with the rest of the league.  The problem is that sometimes as fans we hear "top 6 potential" and we stop listening.  If a talented player slips that far then there are always holes in his game.  Sometimes they can work it out and other times not so much.
IMO this organisations biggest weakness in regards to young prospects is not recognizing when a player is not going to reach his potential before everyone else does and getting good return on him.  I suppose that is at least partly the responsibility of the folks in charge of development but not entirely.  Sabastien Colberg is a good example of when it's done properly.  Unfortunately, the List of players that the return was much less or nothing at all is much longer.

Very good post Lab

Most of this teams 1st rounders that haven't panned out were late 1st round picks.  That means that they were a gamble to begin with.  When you compare MTL's success with those late picks they are pretty much on par with the rest of the league. 

Unfortunately many fans refuse to understand this fact.

There is a lot of talk these days about development and our draft cause we fans are hopeful for the future...yet fearful due to past results.  I think most of us expected too much in the past, and therefore now are just saying....show me before I believe that any of these guys will even make the nhl let alone be a core player for us.

But hopefully this has taught us to be more mindful of our expectations instead of just assuming gloom and doom.

I think the art of drafting has changed, I think the information we have on these guys is a lot more to help us have better expectations.  For me, I see a few of our prospects doing REALLY well vrs their peers and I rejoice and expect it to continue in higher levels.  I think in the past either the info wasn't there, or we didn't want to see the truth about what we were seeing develop before us.  Cause for some of us a 1st round pick should always = stud, no matter if reality says that's not the fact in the NHL.

As for projecting future lines....how many years ahead are we talking?  Obviously it's not a fun exercise for some cause really it's impossible to know who will be here in the future, as stated by other above

Is that how you see it going down on these forums. Plenty of posters see nothing good coming of any prospects, regardless of how they perform on the International stage. Nobody quotes how many top defenders at the WJC go on to have excellent NHL careers. Nobody quotes how tournament leaders on the scoresheet go on to have success careers as top-6 forwards or top-pairing Ds. We're talking Habs prospects here, so it's obviously an anomaly.

I believe that you are right that fans are afraid to be disappointed, like those who got jilted in love are afraid to open up again...
Ancient Chinese Proverb: A mosquito landing on your testicle should help you realize that violence doesn't solve every problem
Reply
Thanks given by:


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)