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Game Thread: Leafs @ Avs
#1
Lines at morning skate

Marleau-Matthews-Kapanen
Hyman-Tavares-Marner
Johnsson-Kadri-Nylander
Lindholm-Gauthier-Brown

Muzzin-Rielly
Gardiner-Zaitsev
Dermott-Hainsey

Andersen
Sparks


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#2
If they swapped Johnsson and Marleau and inserted Moore on the 4th line I'd have no complaints at all.
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#3
****.

Matthews and Kadri need to switch spots.
"Oh mischief, glorious mischief...I do so love it!"
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#4
(2019-02-12, 02:26 PM)MisterZ Wrote: ****.

Matthews and Kadri need to switch spots.

Yup.

At least Johnsson is off the 4th line
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#5
(2019-02-12, 03:11 PM)CuttingEdge Wrote:
(2019-02-12, 02:26 PM)MisterZ Wrote: ****.

Matthews and Kadri need to switch spots.

Yup.

At least Johnsson is off the 4th line

Baby steps for Babs.


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#6
Z has the way of it.

Enough's enough. Nylander's playing like himself, he was signed to be Matthews' wingman, and Matthews needs Nylander as much as Nylander needs Matthews.

AM has 1 goal in his last 4 games, 4G + 1A in his last 10, pointless in 6 of those 10, and a -7 over the same stretch...that lack of production, when you're an 11.634M player is going to earn you some well-deserved heat.

Connor McDavid has been held pointless 7x so far this season.
Auston Matthews has been held pointless 6x in his last 10.
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#7
(2019-02-12, 02:24 PM)Trevorchef Wrote: If they swapped Johnsson and Marleau and inserted Moore on the 4th line I'd have no complaints at all.

Very good points but we all know Babcock will not do that!
“Success is Walking from Failure to Failure with no Loss of Enthusiasm.”
Winston Churchill
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#8
(2019-02-12, 02:26 PM)MisterZ Wrote: ****.

Matthews and Kadri need to switch spots.

I agree at least until his big millions kick in. Would do him good to look up in the ‘world’ some
“Success is Walking from Failure to Failure with no Loss of Enthusiasm.”
Winston Churchill
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#9
(2019-02-12, 03:11 PM)CuttingEdge Wrote:
(2019-02-12, 02:26 PM)MisterZ Wrote: ****.

Matthews and Kadri need to switch spots.

Yup.

At least Johnsson is off the 4th line

For how long?
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#10
(2019-02-12, 03:26 PM)Bo Dangles Wrote: Z has the way of it.

Enough's enough. Nylander's playing like himself, he was signed to be Matthews' wingman, and Matthews needs Nylander as much as Nylander needs Matthews.

AM has 1 goal in his last 4 games, 4G + 1A in his last 10, pointless in 6 of those 10, and a -7 over the same stretch...that lack of production, when you're an 11.634M player is going to earn you some well-deserved heat.

Connor McDavid has been held pointless 7x so far this season.
Auston Matthews has been held pointless 6x in his last 10.

Not biting, Bo.....   Wink
"Stand up for yourself young fellow. Nobody else is going to do it for you" 
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#11
Stat pack

Rielly has seven points (one goal, six assists) in his past seven games … Matthews needs two goals for 100 in the NHL … Landeskog has three assists in his past seven games after having nine points (five goals, four assists) in his previous seven games. He needs two points for 400 in the NHL.
“Success is Walking from Failure to Failure with no Loss of Enthusiasm.”
Winston Churchill
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#12
I applaud your restraint Viable, but it's not meant as bait.

Just facts/stats.

IMO Matthews will not validate his 11.6M contract without an elite setup man on his wing. He's not a guy who makes those around him better. He's not a guy who carries the puck through two zones. Offensively he's a give n go player with a world class shot, who is also willing to go to the dirty areas and bang in greasy goals. He's not a McDavid or MacKinnon or Crosby who will elevate his wingers.

He's had stretches where things have clicked and he's had longer stretches where they haven't. You can't pay a guy 11.6 and have him go pointless in 6/10 games. You need to put the best support players around him you can to maximize his skillset.

I have all the time in the world for the argument that a 11.6M player shouldn't need help, but the reality is that's what we have in Matthews...so we might as well make the most of it.
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#13
I agree, bo. And I'd argue that Nylander isn't really a premier setup man, either.
He needs to be with Marner, but hard to pull him from JT as I believe he was promised him as his winger in negotiations.

So the best course of action is giving him Johnsson on the LW. That gives him two dynamic wingers.
Marleau is a shell of his former self.
Hyman is great with JT and Marner imo because Marner drives the line.

So really, the issue is just with Marleau and not with the RWs, imo.
But Babcock is not going to demote a storied vet like Marleau, just wont happen.
O' for a good life, we just might have to weaken
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#14
Read on HFBoards that our PP is 29th in the league since the end of November.  My god how can a team with this much talent up front be that bad on the PP.


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#15
(2019-02-12, 05:56 PM)Chip Wrote: I agree, bo. And I'd argue that Nylander isn't really a premier setup man, either.
He needs to be with Marner, but hard to pull him from JT as I believe he was promised him as his winger in negotiations.

So the best course of action is giving him Johnsson on the LW. That gives him two dynamic wingers.
Marleau is a shell of his former self.
Hyman is great with JT and Marner imo because Marner drives the line.

So really, the issue is just with Marleau and not with the RWs, imo.
But Babcock is not going to demote a storied vet like Marleau, just wont happen.

The ideal guy might just be Jeremy Bracco. 

He has his warts but for pure playmaking, he's second to only Marner in the entire organization IMO. He's played with AM before on the NTDP. 

If we are dead set on this team being a 3 line deep team next year when we have 40M tied up in 4 forwards, an inexpensive talent like Bracco contributing in the top six might be the answer to our cap crunch. 

Hyman Tavares Marner
Kapanen Matthews Bracco
Johnsson Kadri Nylander

I can't pencil together a top nine for next year that includes Marleau. My brain just can't wrap my head around it when you then have to subtract Kap or Johnsson to make it happen. 

Bracco isn't a Babcock player at all, but I also don't think this team as roughly constructed ever wins a Cup with Babcock as its coach.

That's a discussion for another thread though. 

Bracco can flat out make plays.
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#16
I think a good comparable to Matthews is Ovie, great scores but best when paired with players that can get them the puck.

Ovie's contract dates back to 2008/09 when the ceiling was $56.7 mil., his annual AAV is $9.538 and at that time his cap hit was 16.8% of the cap.

Thru most of Ovie's time with Washington he played with Backstrom and lately it's either Backstrom or Kuznetsov. Matthews needs better primary support than Kappy, Johnsson, Brown, Hy can provide, he needs a Nylander at the least or perhaps even better Marner.
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#17
(2019-02-12, 05:59 PM)LeafalCrusader Wrote: Read on HFBoards that our PP is 29th in the league since the end of November.  My god how can a team with this much talent up front be that bad on the PP.

I have one word and it begins with a B
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#18
(2019-02-12, 07:00 PM)hobster Wrote: I think a good comparable to Matthews is Ovie, great scores but best when paired with players that can get them the puck.

Ovie's contract dates back to 2008/09 when the ceiling was $56.7 mil., his annual AAV is $9.538 and at that time his cap hit was 16.8% of the cap.

Thru most of Ovie's time with Washington he played with Backstrom and lately it's either Backstrom or Kuznetsov. Matthews needs better primary support than Kappy, Johnsson, Brown, Hy can provide, he needs a Nylander at the least or perhaps even better Marner.

OV also committed to WSH for 13 years. 

At the time that he signed the deal, he already had 52 and 46 goal seasons under his belt, he had topped 100pts as a rookie and was in the middle of a season that would see him score 65, and win the Hart, Art Ross, Pearson and Richard trophies. He was a human highlight reel of big hits, insane rushes and mind blowing goals. He was widely regarded as the best player in the world when he signed his deal.

I don't see Matthews as a player or a contract as comparable at all. 

They are first round picks, they both won the Calder, and they both have a great shot. Beyond that? Matthews is nowhere near the level OV was at the same age. 

I agree OV needs a passer to be his best, but he also brought a lot more to the table than Matthews has shown thus far.
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#19
(2019-02-12, 05:39 PM)Bo Dangles Wrote: I applaud your restraint Viable, but it's not meant as bait.

Just facts/stats.

IMO Matthews will not validate his 11.6M contract without an elite setup man on his wing. He's not a guy who makes those around him better. He's not a guy who carries the puck through two zones. Offensively he's a give n go player with a world class shot, who is also willing to go to the dirty areas and bang in greasy goals. He's not a McDavid or MacKinnon or Crosby who will elevate his wingers.

He's had stretches where things have clicked and he's had longer stretches where they haven't. You can't pay a guy 11.6 and have him go pointless in 6/10 games. You need to put the best support players around him you can to maximize his skillset.

I have all the time in the world for the argument that a 11.6M player shouldn't need help, but the reality is that's what we have in Matthews...so we might as well make the most of it.

Good post. 

It’s frustrating.

It’s frustrating we have a stubborn coach who is not getting as much out of his pure talent as he should because he can’t even figure out who belongs together.

It’s frustrating that we just paid out a contract that was a McDavid contract comparative to guy who needs other great assets around him to be successful.

It’s frustrating that it was probably Matthews wish that he be able to play with Marleau because he respects him so much.

It’s frustrating that in a year where we have as good a chance as anyone of having a good Cup run, the Leafs are reluctant to hurt Patty Marleau’s feelings and reduce the status he has on team.

It’s frustrating.
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#20
(2019-02-12, 07:22 PM)Bo Dangles Wrote:
(2019-02-12, 07:00 PM)hobster Wrote: I think a good comparable to Matthews is Ovie, great scores but best when paired with players that can get them the puck.

Ovie's contract dates back to 2008/09 when the ceiling was $56.7 mil., his annual AAV is $9.538 and at that time his cap hit was 16.8% of the cap.

Thru most of Ovie's time with Washington he played with Backstrom and lately it's either Backstrom or Kuznetsov. Matthews needs better primary support than Kappy, Johnsson, Brown, Hy can provide, he needs a Nylander at the least or perhaps even better Marner.

OV also committee to WSH for 13 years. 

At the time that he signed the deal, he already had 52 and 46 goal seasons under his belt, he had topped 100pts as a rookie and was in the middle of a season that would see him score 65, and win the Hart, Art Ross, Pearson and Richard trophies. He was a human highlight reel of big hits, insane rushes and mind blowing goals. He was widely regarded as the best player in the world when he signed his deal.

I don't see Matthews as a player or a contract as comparable at all. 

They are first round picks, they both won the Calder, and they both have a great shot. Beyond that? Matthews is nowhere near the level OV was at the same age. 

I agree OV needs a passer to be his best, but he also brought a lot more to the table than Matthews has shown thus far.

I don't equate Nylander in the same class of player as Backstrom or Kuznetsov therefore I wouldn't expect him to score at a similar pace.

Washington couldn't even make the playoffs with Ovie, TO goes from worst in the league to making the playoffs in Matthews' 1st year, for years the feeling was that Ovie didn't bring it to the playoffs. 

I don't think there's much to separate them, Ovie's a little flashier with the occasional hit.
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