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Giving up v knowing when to move on
#1
Hey everyone

I have a couple big life decisions to make in the next couple weeks. One thing I am really struggling with is battling an underlying feeling of giving up. 

To give you context, I have given myself a deadline of September to decide whether I am going to go back home or stay in Aus. Staying here without a secure, full-time job is becoming burdensome; it is becoming too expensive to stay. If I stay, it is going to cost me approximately $12,000 (minimum) over the next 4 months, excluding cost of living. To me, it is not feasible to pay that much money to live somewhere where there is no job certainty and no certainty I will be here beyond June 2020. 

Having said that, I am worried my decision to go home is being driven by me giving up (granted, I have always been someone who struggles with moving on because I always feel like I have more to give or there is always more I can do).

I was hoping some here would have words of wisdom you can pass on. How do you know it is the right time to turn the page? When is moving on not analogous to giving up? When is it the correct call?

Thank you for your advice!
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#2
Wait - do you mean giving up on school?
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#3
Don't give up.  I know the last 25 years have been very painful.  But we have McDavid signed for the next eight years, so things have to get better eventually.
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#4
I thought you had decided to stay in Australia because you had a job offer?  

It's smart & responsible that you're giving yourself a deadline.     Living & working in Australia over cold ass Alberta seems like a no brainer,   but if you can't secure full time employment,   well,   sounds like you already know the answer to that.

I would try to exhaust every avenue for a good job opportunity before deciding on coming back.   You've been there for so long already & seem to want to stay & build a life in Australia.   Have you expanded your job search to anywhere in Australia or just one area?  What about another country in Oceania?

Don't look at it as giving up so much as knowing when to move on.

Hopefully Australia works out for you.  Good luck
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#5
(2018-08-08, 08:53 PM)poppabyrd Wrote: Wait - do you mean giving up on school?

Oh no. I graduated in May. I mean more deciding where to live.
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#6
(2018-08-08, 08:56 PM)25YearRebuild Wrote: Don't give up.  I know the last 25 years have been very painful.  But we have McDavid signed for the next eight years, so things have to get better eventually.

Being an Oiler fan is tough.
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#7
Will make a couple comments. The cost of living is insane and I really don't understand how someone articling could afford to live there. Having lived there, Kangaroo Point, for 3 years, I can't think of many places in the world that I would rather live.

I think you have to make a decision that I don't know if you have ever made yet. Do you want to spend the rest of your life in Australia? If the answer is yes then you probably need to make the sacrifices and decisions to make that happen. If the answer is no and you always want to get back to Canada to work, then I think time to move on. You have finished your degree, go back to Canada and start articling.
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#8
(2018-08-08, 08:56 PM)CTS Wrote: I thought you had decided to stay in Australia because you had a job offer?  

It's smart & responsible that you're giving yourself a deadline.     Living & working in Australia over cold ass Alberta seems like a no brainer,   but if you can't secure full time employment,   well,   sounds like you already know the answer to that.

I would try to exhaust every avenue for a good job opportunity before deciding on coming back.   You've been there for so long already & seem to want to stay & build a life in Australia.   Have you expanded your job search to anywhere in Australia or just one area?

Don't look at it as giving up so much as knowing when to move on.

Hopefully Australia works out for you.  Good luck

I've had a few interviews. I had one very good prospect that ended up not working out. I am not sure what happened (though I have my suspicions). Their behaviour was very strange.
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#9
Hi OilerFan,

How old are you? I’m asking because that could also factor in to your decision, but that is just one point of many.

From my experience there are so many factors you can take into consideration and you can possibly go back and forth in your mind a thousand times and never arrive at a suitable response. There is only one question you need to ask yourself.

Are you happy?

Are you happy living where you are, are you happy with the situation you’re in living there, will you be happy with the likely added stress you’ll have placed on yourself? Will you be happy if you feel wpyou packed it in too early? It sounds like you might have a safety net of sort and will be able to come back home when you like, but what you have to look at is simply what will make you happy. If it’s staying, then stay and find a way to work it out. If the stress of staying makes you unhappy then come on home and move on to the next adventure ?
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#10
(2018-08-08, 08:58 PM)tm123 Wrote: Will make a couple comments.  The cost of living is insane and I really don't understand how someone articling could afford to live there.  Having lived there, Kangaroo Point, for 3 years, I can't think of many places in the world that I would rather live.

I think you have to make a decision that I don't know if you have ever made yet.  Do you want to spend the rest of your life in Australia?  If the answer is yes then you probably need to make the sacrifices and decisions to make that happen.  If the answer is no and you always want to get back to Canada to work, then I think time to move on.  You have finished your degree, go back to Canada and start articling.

I think the answer to that is probably no.
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#11
Isn't all of Australia in a drought?
I'd consider moving on, nothing more important than water
Don’t blame the butter for what the bread did
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#12
(2018-08-08, 08:57 PM)TheOilerFan83 Wrote:
(2018-08-08, 08:53 PM)poppabyrd Wrote: Wait - do you mean giving up on school?

Oh no. I graduated in May. I mean more deciding where to live.

Phew.  I'm glad that's in the can
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#13
(2018-08-08, 09:02 PM)SeanCDNMTL Wrote: Hi OilerFan,

How old are you? I’m asking because that could also factor in to your decision, but that is just one point of many.

From my experience there are so many factors you can take into consideration and you can possibly go back and forth in your mind a thousand times and never arrive at a suitable response. There is only one question you need to ask yourself.

Are you happy?

Are you happy living where you are, are you happy with the situation you’re in living there, will you be happy with the likely added stress you’ll have placed on yourself? Will you be happy if you feel wpyou packed it in too early? It sounds like you might have a safety net of sort and will be able to come back home when you like, but what you have to look at is simply what will make you happy. If it’s staying, then stay and find a way to work it out. If the stress of staying makes you unhappy then come on home and move on to the next adventure ?

I am 29. 

I would say, outside of my current financial/work situation, I am happy. 

If I do a cost/benefit analysis, staying and going is pretty even. The biggest swing factor is work. My visa status really impacts my ability to get a job with big/medium sized firms. They do not want to deal with the drama that comes with visas. Further to that, the equivalent of articling here is $10,000 and it includes another semester of schoolwork. You are also not guaranteed a paid position when articling or a job post-articling. So, to article, I have to pay $10,000 on Sept 1 and work for free until November. That is not going to be easy to do purely from a financial standpoint.

What concerns me is: I fork over the $10,000, spend another $2,000 to get admitted, have to add another $5K to my LoC, then I am sitting here with <1 year left on my visa, no meaningful job, further in debt, and having to go home anyway because I could not pay for my next visa (granted, all these issues go away if I find a wife).

This is why I have set Sept 1 as the deadline. After that, its not logical to stay.
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#14
(2018-08-08, 09:02 PM)TheOilerFan83 Wrote:
(2018-08-08, 08:58 PM)tm123 Wrote: Will make a couple comments.  The cost of living is insane and I really don't understand how someone articling could afford to live there.  Having lived there, Kangaroo Point, for 3 years, I can't think of many places in the world that I would rather live.

I think you have to make a decision that I don't know if you have ever made yet.  Do you want to spend the rest of your life in Australia?  If the answer is yes then you probably need to make the sacrifices and decisions to make that happen.  If the answer is no and you always want to get back to Canada to work, then I think time to move on.  You have finished your degree, go back to Canada and start articling.

I think the answer to that is probably no.

Then I would move back home.  May as well start the struggle to find a job in Canada as opposed to the struggle to find a job in Australia.  Both are going to have barriers for yourself as it is and Australia is just adding a much larger financial barrier on top of that.
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#15
(2018-08-08, 09:20 PM)TheOilerFan83 Wrote:
(2018-08-08, 09:02 PM)SeanCDNMTL Wrote: Hi OilerFan,

How old are you? I’m asking because that could also factor in to your decision, but that is just one point of many.

From my experience there are so many factors you can take into consideration and you can possibly go back and forth in your mind a thousand times and never arrive at a suitable response. There is only one question you need to ask yourself.

Are you happy?

Are you happy living where you are, are you happy with the situation you’re in living there, will you be happy with the likely added stress you’ll have placed on yourself? Will you be happy if you feel wpyou packed it in too early? It sounds like you might have a safety net of sort and will be able to come back home when you like, but what you have to look at is simply what will make you happy. If it’s staying, then stay and find a way to work it out. If the stress of staying makes you unhappy then come on home and move on to the next adventure ?

I am 29. 

I would say, outside of my current financial/work situation, I am happy. 

If I do a cost/benefit analysis, staying and going is pretty even. The biggest swing factor is work. My visa status really impacts my ability to get a job with big/medium sized firms. They do not want to deal with the drama that comes with visas. Further to that, the equivalent of articling here is $10,000 and it includes another semester of schoolwork. You are also not guaranteed a paid position when articling or a job post-articling. So, to article, I have to pay $10,000 on Sept 1 and work for free until November. That is not going to be easy to do purely from a financial standpoint.

What concerns me is: I fork over the $10,000, spend another $2,000 to get admitted, have to add another $5K to my LoC, then I am sitting here with <1 year left on my visa, no meaningful job, further in debt, and having to go home anyway because I could not pay for my next visa (granted, all these issues go away if I find a wife).

This is why I have set Sept 1 as the deadline. After that, its not logical to stay.

Well it sounds as if you’re leaning one way and you pretty much know the way you’ll go, but it’s still a difficult decision to set in stone. I mean, if you really want to stay in Australia then perhaps there is a different way, through a different path and different industry, but not sure if you’ll be happy making those changes. 

Seems to me that you’re leaning towards coming back, but the good news is you would be coming back to a pretty great country.  Wink So not all that bad
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#16
(2018-08-08, 09:22 PM)tm123 Wrote:
(2018-08-08, 09:02 PM)TheOilerFan83 Wrote:
(2018-08-08, 08:58 PM)tm123 Wrote: Will make a couple comments.  The cost of living is insane and I really don't understand how someone articling could afford to live there.  Having lived there, Kangaroo Point, for 3 years, I can't think of many places in the world that I would rather live.

I think you have to make a decision that I don't know if you have ever made yet.  Do you want to spend the rest of your life in Australia?  If the answer is yes then you probably need to make the sacrifices and decisions to make that happen.  If the answer is no and you always want to get back to Canada to work, then I think time to move on.  You have finished your degree, go back to Canada and start articling.

I think the answer to that is probably no.

Then I would move back home.  May as well start the struggle to find a job in Canada as opposed to the struggle to find a job in Australia.  Both are going to have barriers for yourself as it is and Australia is just adding a much larger financial barrier on top of that.
Either way you get the metric system.
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#17
Come home, Darling. I miss you.
"Oh mischief, glorious mischief...I do so love it!"
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#18
83 i can't imagine the frustration of your situation. We all want a healthy you and if there is so much job uncertainty, I'd suggest coming back home. It's not giving up whatsoever. Its strategic and a sign that you want to enter thw industry as fast as possible. No point in dealing with visas and more financial debt imo. 

I've recently come to the realization that I might not be able to live in Ottawa for a pretty long time. It was frustrating but I've come to terms with the idea lf living with my family for my own health. It'll be a crappy feeling leaving Australia but for your overall professional career, I think it'll be the right move.
If you need a sign to stay alive tonight, this is it!
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#19
As a legend on these matters once wrote, you gotta know when to hold 'em know when to fold 'em know when to walk away and know when to run.

I think you've done all the right things to know when the time is right to close this chapter in your life and move on to your next adventure.

CTS is right don't think of it in negative terms. Everything ends eventually sometimes sooner.
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#20
I can share my experience. 

When I was 30, I was in Toronto had been there 5 years. Loved it. Had great friends. Career was really growing. But I thought if I didn’t go explore I never would. 

So I quit my job and moved to NYC. Had a blast for a year, then moved to London for 2 years, had a blast, then Hong Kong for 3, picked up a wife, and then 6 years in the UAE, now back to HK which is my second home. 

I don’t regret any of it, except maybe a little longer in NYC would have been good. 

I thought of going home a few times but the longer I lived abroad the less I was interested in moving home. At this point I’m not sure we will ever go back. 

I guess the takeaway would be, do you think if you went home you are going to leave International life behind?

Flip side, no harm going home at your age, plenty of time to head out again. One of my best friends lived in Korea for awhile, then moved home to Toronto for a couple years, but then got the itch and went back out again, he’s been back out for 10years now. Might be you need to go home to help you realise which you like better. 

I find I look fondly back on times, but then once I go reexperience it, it’s not as good as the memory.i am glad I left the Middle East, and HK is great and all, but not as great as my memory of it before we moved back.
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