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Interesting Women's Final at the US Open
#21
(2018-09-09, 07:07 AM)Cal Wrote: @ encore- why so quick to dismiss arguably the best women's tennis player of all time?
Is it so you can have a silly argument defending an umpire?
Ramos set precedent for being a jerk. I have a feeling he won't be officiating any more WTA events.

  I also agree with this, too. Totally full of his own inflated ego
Phill 2:10-11 
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#22
Williams has been fined $17,000 for the three violations.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/09/tennis/se...index.html
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#23
(2018-09-10, 04:36 PM)Highstyx Wrote:
(2018-09-09, 07:07 AM)Cal Wrote: @ encore- why so quick to dismiss arguably the best women's tennis player of all time?
Is it so you can have a silly argument defending an umpire?
Ramos set precedent for being a jerk. I have a feeling he won't be officiating any more WTA events.

  I also agree with this, too. Totally full of his own inflated ego

Based on what? He warned Serena not once, but twice before he took a game from her. How is Ramos an egotistical jerk?
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#24
(2018-09-10, 04:34 PM)Highstyx Wrote:
(2018-09-09, 11:26 AM)Canuxxx Wrote: There are rules in tennis. Serena violated THREE. 

1. Coaching from the stands( coach admitted after the match).
2. Smashed her racquet.
3. Verbally abused the chair umpire.

The chair umpire did what he was supposed to do, hold a player accountable for her actions. Serena violated the code of conduct 3 times like i said therefore that is a game penalyt. 

Playing the sexism card to justify her behaviour was embarassing.

   I agree with all this, but also believe she was shafted re: Abuse. When did McEnroe ever get this ??

That said, it is a tough call, for me.. I feel for the lady who won that tourney, because her win will seem tainted.

and to hear the Femi nazi nonsense, it just made me want to puke


McEnroe was once defaulted from a match after his third warning, at the 1990 Australian Open. Nonetheless, what the rules were 30-40 years ago (different, to be sure) and how strictly they were enforced is a non-starter.


Anybody who watches tennis on a frequent basis will tell you that Ramos is a by-the-book umpire that is strict on coaching. He has given Nadal (who, best I can tell, is a male) flak for coaching many times. Moreover, Mouratoglou admitted to coaching in the post-match interview.

That was but the first warning. The second warning was caused by a racquet break, which is a violation 100% of the time. The third came after a lengthy tirade wherein Williams called the umpire a thief and implored him to apologize to her.

The funny thing is that Ramos (who made a gaudy $450 umpiring the match) was supposed to be honoured in the post-match ceremony. Instead, they sent him away to the locker room to placate SW.

Anybody who thinks her and her team don’t bear most of the blame for this debacle is either uninformed or simply trying to manufacture nuance.
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#25
I would maybe agree with you, if Ramos didn't basically agree with Serena regarding the coaching infraction. He basically led her to believe, that he was wrong on calling that infraction from the tapes I heard anyways. That coaching infraction was the catalyst of this all, and he just piled on the punishment, after having a conversation with Serena that suggested he agreed with her. When she says "I don't cheat", and his response is ' And I know that", then you're admitting that was an improper infraction, and that it should be rescinded.
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#26
(2018-09-10, 08:03 PM)thebest41587 Wrote: I would maybe agree with you, if Ramos didn't basically agree with Serena regarding the coaching infraction. He basically led her to believe, that he was wrong on calling that infraction from the tapes I heard anyways. That coaching infraction was the catalyst of this all, and he just piled on the punishment, after having a conversation with Serena that suggested he agreed with her. When she says "I don't cheat", and his response is ' And I know that", then you're admitting that was an improper infraction, and that it should be rescinded.

She need not be cheating or even be privy to any coaching arrangement in order to receive a warning for coaching. It is one of the breaks of the game. Like it or not, there is a joint responsibility assumed by her and her team in regards to coaching. This is a bulwark against any potential ‘but all I did was look at my box’ defense. So, if a player is seen receiving coaching, THEY get the warning (if there is one issued.) The fact that the coach admitted outright that coaching had occurred (credit to him) effectively closes the door on things.

Ramos fwiw agreed that she was not consciously cheating, not that there was no coaching violation.
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#27
(2018-09-10, 08:14 PM)bluejayyay Wrote:
(2018-09-10, 08:03 PM)thebest41587 Wrote: I would maybe agree with you, if Ramos didn't basically agree with Serena regarding the coaching infraction. He basically led her to believe, that he was wrong on calling that infraction from the tapes I heard anyways. That coaching infraction was the catalyst of this all, and he just piled on the punishment, after having a conversation with Serena that suggested he agreed with her. When she says "I don't cheat", and his response is ' And I know that", then you're admitting that was an improper infraction, and that it should be rescinded.

She doesn’t need to be cheating in order to receive a warning for coaching. Like it or not, there is a joint responsibility assumed by her and her team in regards to coaching. This is a bulwark against any potential ‘but all I did was look at my box’ defense. So, if a player is seen receiving coaching, they get the warning (if there is one issued.) The fact that the coach admitted outright that coaching had occurred (credit to him) effectively closes the door on things.

Serena doesn't know that at the time. Live in the moment in her shoes. The ump agrees with her, admits he knows she doesn't cheat, which is what a coaching violation suggests (whether you want to believe that or not), and then accelerates the punishment with the racket violation, which should've been a warning in her eyes, and rightfully so, he agreed, she didn't cheat. And then a simple comment that you're a thief, with the stuff we've heard from men in the past, gets her the 3rd violation?! Serena had every right to be upset and think she was treated unfairly. She was.
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#28
Whoa, back this up a bit.

The COACH was cheating, and admitted it.

Ramos can both think the coach was cheating and that Williams was not and still have made the correct call.
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#29
(2018-09-10, 08:19 PM)thebest41587 Wrote:
(2018-09-10, 08:14 PM)bluejayyay Wrote:
(2018-09-10, 08:03 PM)thebest41587 Wrote: I would maybe agree with you, if Ramos didn't basically agree with Serena regarding the coaching infraction. He basically led her to believe, that he was wrong on calling that infraction from the tapes I heard anyways. That coaching infraction was the catalyst of this all, and he just piled on the punishment, after having a conversation with Serena that suggested he agreed with her. When she says "I don't cheat", and his response is ' And I know that", then you're admitting that was an improper infraction, and that it should be rescinded.

She doesn’t need to be cheating in order to receive a warning for coaching. Like it or not, there is a joint responsibility assumed by her and her team in regards to coaching. This is a bulwark against any potential ‘but all I did was look at my box’ defense. So, if a player is seen receiving coaching, they get the warning (if there is one issued.) The fact that the coach admitted outright that coaching had occurred (credit to him) effectively closes the door on things.

Serena doesn't know that at the time. Live in the moment in her shoes. The ump agrees with her, admits he knows she doesn't cheat, which is what a coaching violation suggests (whether you want to believe that or not), and then accelerates the punishment with the racket violation, which should've been a warning in her eyes, and rightfully so, he agreed, she didn't cheat. And then a simple comment that you're a thief, with the stuff we've heard from men in the past, gets her the 3rd violation?! Serena had every right to be upset and think she was treated unfairly. She was.

That's not what I saw, she repeatedly called him a thief, and a liar, and demanded an apology. this was after a third warning. I am a woman and I don't buy that sexist BS..If Serena really has issues with how women are treated vs men then why not take it up sooner, pulling that card during a match that she was losing just makes her look like a poor sport.
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#30
(2018-09-10, 09:11 PM)Limestoner Wrote: Whoa, back this up a bit.

The COACH was cheating, and admitted it.

Ramos can both think the coach was cheating and  that Williams was not and still have made the correct call.

I know nothing about tennis or the rules, but what I do know is just because she did not see the coach cheating doesn't mean they were not cheating..its just that she never saw it..its still cheating is it not??
º¤ø ¸„ø¤GO HABS GOø¤º°¨¨¨°º¤
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#31
(2018-09-11, 01:08 PM)Mavid Wrote:
(2018-09-10, 09:11 PM)Limestoner Wrote: Whoa, back this up a bit.

The COACH was cheating, and admitted it.

Ramos can both think the coach was cheating and  that Williams was not and still have made the correct call.

I know nothing about tennis or the rules, but what I do know is just because she did not see the coach cheating doesn't mean they were not cheating..its just that she never saw it..its still cheating is it not??

Correct. It makes no difference whether Serena was aware of the coaching. Unfortunately for her, Serena is punished for the mistakes of the coach and since he admitted to coaching, there’s really no defence against the issuing of the first warning. Coaching warnings are quite common in tennis, as are warnings for smashing racquets.
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#32
(2018-09-10, 08:19 PM)thebest41587 Wrote:
(2018-09-10, 08:14 PM)bluejayyay Wrote:
(2018-09-10, 08:03 PM)thebest41587 Wrote: I would maybe agree with you, if Ramos didn't basically agree with Serena regarding the coaching infraction. He basically led her to believe, that he was wrong on calling that infraction from the tapes I heard anyways. That coaching infraction was the catalyst of this all, and he just piled on the punishment, after having a conversation with Serena that suggested he agreed with her. When she says "I don't cheat", and his response is ' And I know that", then you're admitting that was an improper infraction, and that it should be rescinded.

She doesn’t need to be cheating in order to receive a warning for coaching. Like it or not, there is a joint responsibility assumed by her and her team in regards to coaching. This is a bulwark against any potential ‘but all I did was look at my box’ defense. So, if a player is seen receiving coaching, they get the warning (if there is one issued.) The fact that the coach admitted outright that coaching had occurred (credit to him) effectively closes the door on things.

Serena doesn't know that at the time. Live in the moment in her shoes. The ump agrees with her, admits he knows she doesn't cheat, which is what a coaching violation suggests (whether you want to believe that or not), and then accelerates the punishment with the racket violation, which should've been a warning in her eyes, and rightfully so, he agreed, she didn't cheat. And then a simple comment that you're a thief, with the stuff we've heard from men in the past, gets her the 3rd violation?! Serena had every right to be upset and think she was treated unfairly. She was.

Of course Serena knows the rule, regardless of the inherent volatility within the situation. She’s been a touring pro for over 20 years and is perhaps the greatest women’s player of all time. I don’t think her situational awareness was affected to that degree. As has already been noted, Ramos never accused her of cheating nor did she have to cheat in order to receive the warning. This is something that Serena dreamed up, plain and simple. It is incumbent upon both her and her team to comply with the no-coaching rule. If an umpire witnesses any gestures suggesting coaching, the player gets the warning. This has always been the case.

For all of the people admonishing Ramos for not exhibiting discretion, keep in mind that we have no way of knowing whether this was the first instance of coaching that he noticed and there is very little footage of SW’s box which would confirm or deny such a thing.

And finally, you are not accurately describing the events leading up to the final warning. She did NOT merely call him a thief, she also called him a liar, promised that he would never umpire one of her matches again (not a call a player should be able to make), and spent the better part of a minute trying to elicit an apology out of him. The thief remark was the last straw, not the only one.
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#33
I never liked Serena, an obnoxious, self-centered, self-entitled prima donna - always was, always will be.
(And her dad isn't any better, although I do like Venus!)
Too bad she's such a good player, though I'll always cheer against her, and am always happy when she loses Happy

In this case, she broke 3 rules - it doesn't matter who else, male or female, broke them before.
Is a soccer referee going to listen to a player diving who says "but the other guy also did it"?
Will the NHL referee care who says another player should have also been penalised for holding?
Should a tennis umpire repeat his mistake with a female player because he missed a foot fault on a man earlier?
 
Martina Navratilova said it best: "Even if men do it, it's wrong".

Hey Serena, the fact you've never cheated before, and certainly the fact you're female or are now a mom, means dick-all to the umpire who, by the way, had penalised Kei Nishikori, Rafael Nadal and Andy Murray in the past for similar misbebaviour. The man is accused of having been inconsistent with those rules, but I think the more vehemently you throw your racket and break it, the more likely he won't put up with that crap. As a pro athlete, you're supposed to adjust to the baseball umpire's strike zone, the NHL referee tolerance...or the tennis umpire's application of the rules. I know, that sucks...but c'est la vie!

And please, let's cut that racist crap: we hear it every single time we should not (not saying we shouldn't hear it in racist situations  Happy )
Mark Knight's cartoon is brilliant and very appropriate. How else are you going to draw an irate, wide, black woman except like that?

   

Billie Jean King might have said it best "Serena Williams 'out of line' in US Open final but umpire 'blew it'."
If it's a problem, address it...but not during a match, and not if it diminishes Osaka's moment of glory Angry


Like I said...obnoxious, self-centered and self-entitled...
Why is common sense not so common?
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#34
(2018-09-11, 10:12 PM)bluejayyay Wrote:
(2018-09-10, 08:19 PM)thebest41587 Wrote:
(2018-09-10, 08:14 PM)bluejayyay Wrote:
(2018-09-10, 08:03 PM)thebest41587 Wrote: I would maybe agree with you, if Ramos didn't basically agree with Serena regarding the coaching infraction. He basically led her to believe, that he was wrong on calling that infraction from the tapes I heard anyways. That coaching infraction was the catalyst of this all, and he just piled on the punishment, after having a conversation with Serena that suggested he agreed with her. When she says "I don't cheat", and his response is ' And I know that", then you're admitting that was an improper infraction, and that it should be rescinded.

She doesn’t need to be cheating in order to receive a warning for coaching. Like it or not, there is a joint responsibility assumed by her and her team in regards to coaching. This is a bulwark against any potential ‘but all I did was look at my box’ defense. So, if a player is seen receiving coaching, they get the warning (if there is one issued.) The fact that the coach admitted outright that coaching had occurred (credit to him) effectively closes the door on things.

Serena doesn't know that at the time. Live in the moment in her shoes. The ump agrees with her, admits he knows she doesn't cheat, which is what a coaching violation suggests (whether you want to believe that or not), and then accelerates the punishment with the racket violation, which should've been a warning in her eyes, and rightfully so, he agreed, she didn't cheat. And then a simple comment that you're a thief, with the stuff we've heard from men in the past, gets her the 3rd violation?! Serena had every right to be upset and think she was treated unfairly. She was.

Of course Serena knows the rule, regardless of the inherent volatility within the situation. She’s been a touring pro for over 20 years and is perhaps the greatest women’s player of all time. I don’t think her situational awareness was affected to that degree. As has already been noted, Ramos never accused her of cheating nor did she have to cheat in order to receive the warning. This is something that Serena dreamed up, plain and simple. It is incumbent upon both her and her team to comply with the no-coaching rule. If an umpire witnesses any gestures suggesting coaching, the player gets the warning. This has always been the case.

For all of the people admonishing Ramos for not exhibiting discretion, keep in mind that we have no way of knowing whether this was the first instance of coaching that he noticed and there is very little footage of SW’s box which would confirm or deny such a thing.

And finally, you are not accurately describing the events leading up to the final warning. She did NOT merely call him a thief, she also called him a liar, promised that he would never umpire one of her matches again (not a call a player should be able to make), and spent the better part of a minute trying to elicit an apology out of him. The thief remark was the last straw, not the only one.
When the referee came out, that is what Ramos said earned the violation. And that's the comment the referee repeated as the reason for it.

She did make a silly comment about not doing one of her matches again, that was cringe worthy hearing that one. I totally get why Serena blew up though, and that's what I mean when I say "live the moment in her shoes". The coach admitting to anything after the fact is completely irrelevant to Serena's actions. I think I'd want an apology too after leading me to believe you made the wrong call on the coaching violation, and then accelerating the penalties. He totally misled her IMO.
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#35
(2018-09-12, 03:15 PM)thebest41587 Wrote:
(2018-09-11, 10:12 PM)bluejayyay Wrote:
(2018-09-10, 08:19 PM)thebest41587 Wrote:
(2018-09-10, 08:14 PM)bluejayyay Wrote:
(2018-09-10, 08:03 PM)thebest41587 Wrote: I would maybe agree with you, if Ramos didn't basically agree with Serena regarding the coaching infraction. He basically led her to believe, that he was wrong on calling that infraction from the tapes I heard anyways. That coaching infraction was the catalyst of this all, and he just piled on the punishment, after having a conversation with Serena that suggested he agreed with her. When she says "I don't cheat", and his response is ' And I know that", then you're admitting that was an improper infraction, and that it should be rescinded.

She doesn’t need to be cheating in order to receive a warning for coaching. Like it or not, there is a joint responsibility assumed by her and her team in regards to coaching. This is a bulwark against any potential ‘but all I did was look at my box’ defense. So, if a player is seen receiving coaching, they get the warning (if there is one issued.) The fact that the coach admitted outright that coaching had occurred (credit to him) effectively closes the door on things.

Serena doesn't know that at the time. Live in the moment in her shoes. The ump agrees with her, admits he knows she doesn't cheat, which is what a coaching violation suggests (whether you want to believe that or not), and then accelerates the punishment with the racket violation, which should've been a warning in her eyes, and rightfully so, he agreed, she didn't cheat. And then a simple comment that you're a thief, with the stuff we've heard from men in the past, gets her the 3rd violation?! Serena had every right to be upset and think she was treated unfairly. She was.

Of course Serena knows the rule, regardless of the inherent volatility within the situation. She’s been a touring pro for over 20 years and is perhaps the greatest women’s player of all time. I don’t think her situational awareness was affected to that degree. As has already been noted, Ramos never accused her of cheating nor did she have to cheat in order to receive the warning. This is something that Serena dreamed up, plain and simple. It is incumbent upon both her and her team to comply with the no-coaching rule. If an umpire witnesses any gestures suggesting coaching, the player gets the warning. This has always been the case.

For all of the people admonishing Ramos for not exhibiting discretion, keep in mind that we have no way of knowing whether this was the first instance of coaching that he noticed and there is very little footage of SW’s box which would confirm or deny such a thing.

And finally, you are not accurately describing the events leading up to the final warning. She did NOT merely call him a thief, she also called him a liar, promised that he would never umpire one of her matches again (not a call a player should be able to make), and spent the better part of a minute trying to elicit an apology out of him. The thief remark was the last straw, not the only one.
When the referee came out, that is what Ramos said earned the violation. And that's the comment the referee repeated as the reason for it.

She did make a silly comment about not doing one of her matches again, that was cringe worthy hearing that one. I totally get why Serena blew up though, and that's what I mean when I say "live the moment in her shoes". The coach admitting to anything after the fact is completely irrelevant to Serena's actions. I think I'd want an apology too after leading me to believe you made the wrong call on the coaching violation, and then accelerating the penalties. He totally misled her IMO.


How did he lead her to believe that? He said he believed she wasn’t cheating, but he didn’t indicate he was rescinding the warning nor did he. She needn’t be cheating in order to receive a warning for coaching. The player always receives the warning on behalf of their box. The coach admitting to coaching validates the call.
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#36
(2018-09-12, 03:47 PM)bluejayyay Wrote:
(2018-09-12, 03:15 PM)thebest41587 Wrote:
(2018-09-11, 10:12 PM)bluejayyay Wrote:
(2018-09-10, 08:19 PM)thebest41587 Wrote:
(2018-09-10, 08:14 PM)bluejayyay Wrote: She doesn’t need to be cheating in order to receive a warning for coaching. Like it or not, there is a joint responsibility assumed by her and her team in regards to coaching. This is a bulwark against any potential ‘but all I did was look at my box’ defense. So, if a player is seen receiving coaching, they get the warning (if there is one issued.) The fact that the coach admitted outright that coaching had occurred (credit to him) effectively closes the door on things.

Serena doesn't know that at the time. Live in the moment in her shoes. The ump agrees with her, admits he knows she doesn't cheat, which is what a coaching violation suggests (whether you want to believe that or not), and then accelerates the punishment with the racket violation, which should've been a warning in her eyes, and rightfully so, he agreed, she didn't cheat. And then a simple comment that you're a thief, with the stuff we've heard from men in the past, gets her the 3rd violation?! Serena had every right to be upset and think she was treated unfairly. She was.

Of course Serena knows the rule, regardless of the inherent volatility within the situation. She’s been a touring pro for over 20 years and is perhaps the greatest women’s player of all time. I don’t think her situational awareness was affected to that degree. As has already been noted, Ramos never accused her of cheating nor did she have to cheat in order to receive the warning. This is something that Serena dreamed up, plain and simple. It is incumbent upon both her and her team to comply with the no-coaching rule. If an umpire witnesses any gestures suggesting coaching, the player gets the warning. This has always been the case.

For all of the people admonishing Ramos for not exhibiting discretion, keep in mind that we have no way of knowing whether this was the first instance of coaching that he noticed and there is very little footage of SW’s box which would confirm or deny such a thing.

And finally, you are not accurately describing the events leading up to the final warning. She did NOT merely call him a thief, she also called him a liar, promised that he would never umpire one of her matches again (not a call a player should be able to make), and spent the better part of a minute trying to elicit an apology out of him. The thief remark was the last straw, not the only one.
When the referee came out, that is what Ramos said earned the violation. And that's the comment the referee repeated as the reason for it.

She did make a silly comment about not doing one of her matches again, that was cringe worthy hearing that one. I totally get why Serena blew up though, and that's what I mean when I say "live the moment in her shoes". The coach admitting to anything after the fact is completely irrelevant to Serena's actions. I think I'd want an apology too after leading me to believe you made the wrong call on the coaching violation, and then accelerating the penalties. He totally misled her IMO.


How did he lead her to believe that? He said he believed she wasn’t cheating, but he didn’t indicate he was rescinding the warning nor did he. She needn’t be cheating in order to receive a warning for coaching. The player always receives the warning on behalf of their box. The coach admitting to coaching validates the call.

When she says during the conversation that "I wasn't getting coaching", "I don't cheat", and his response is "and I know that", to me that's admitting you overstepped and shouldn't have made that call. That's presumably why she also said "you need to make an announcement I didn't get coaching" when the 2nd infraction happened.
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#37
(2018-09-12, 04:00 PM)thebest41587 Wrote:
(2018-09-12, 03:47 PM)bluejayyay Wrote:
(2018-09-12, 03:15 PM)thebest41587 Wrote:
(2018-09-11, 10:12 PM)bluejayyay Wrote:
(2018-09-10, 08:19 PM)thebest41587 Wrote: Serena doesn't know that at the time. Live in the moment in her shoes. The ump agrees with her, admits he knows she doesn't cheat, which is what a coaching violation suggests (whether you want to believe that or not), and then accelerates the punishment with the racket violation, which should've been a warning in her eyes, and rightfully so, he agreed, she didn't cheat. And then a simple comment that you're a thief, with the stuff we've heard from men in the past, gets her the 3rd violation?! Serena had every right to be upset and think she was treated unfairly. She was.

Of course Serena knows the rule, regardless of the inherent volatility within the situation. She’s been a touring pro for over 20 years and is perhaps the greatest women’s player of all time. I don’t think her situational awareness was affected to that degree. As has already been noted, Ramos never accused her of cheating nor did she have to cheat in order to receive the warning. This is something that Serena dreamed up, plain and simple. It is incumbent upon both her and her team to comply with the no-coaching rule. If an umpire witnesses any gestures suggesting coaching, the player gets the warning. This has always been the case.

For all of the people admonishing Ramos for not exhibiting discretion, keep in mind that we have no way of knowing whether this was the first instance of coaching that he noticed and there is very little footage of SW’s box which would confirm or deny such a thing.

And finally, you are not accurately describing the events leading up to the final warning. She did NOT merely call him a thief, she also called him a liar, promised that he would never umpire one of her matches again (not a call a player should be able to make), and spent the better part of a minute trying to elicit an apology out of him. The thief remark was the last straw, not the only one.
When the referee came out, that is what Ramos said earned the violation. And that's the comment the referee repeated as the reason for it.

She did make a silly comment about not doing one of her matches again, that was cringe worthy hearing that one. I totally get why Serena blew up though, and that's what I mean when I say "live the moment in her shoes". The coach admitting to anything after the fact is completely irrelevant to Serena's actions. I think I'd want an apology too after leading me to believe you made the wrong call on the coaching violation, and then accelerating the penalties. He totally misled her IMO.


How did he lead her to believe that? He said he believed she wasn’t cheating, but he didn’t indicate he was rescinding the warning nor did he. She needn’t be cheating in order to receive a warning for coaching. The player always receives the warning on behalf of their box. The coach admitting to coaching validates the call.

When she says during the conversation that "I wasn't getting coaching", "I don't cheat", and his response is "and I know that", to me that's admitting you overstepped and shouldn't have made that call. That's presumably why she also said "you need to make an announcement I didn't get coaching" when the 2nd infraction happened.

Unsolicited coaching doesn’t need to be viewed as cheating on behalf of the player, but any warning issued will always be issued to the player. Cheating does not even need to be a consideration. It’s about accountability.

Ramos responded “I know that” specifically to her remark that she wasn’t cheating. That she didn’t know the warning wasn’t rescinded is not his fault; it is quite obvious it wasn’t and Ramos gave no indication otherwise.

It’s not a bad thing to have sympathy for the plight of another human but where is the outpouring of sympathy for Ramos? Even according to you, the worst he did was not clarifying that the warning will stand and thereby unintentionally misleading Williams. For this his character is tarred (by both Williams and the press), he is called a sexist, a misogynist, an egomaniac exerting too much pull on a match, etc. For this his post-match plaudits honouring many decades of good umpiring were cancelled. All that grief for following the rulebook to a T.
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#38
(2018-09-12, 04:00 PM)thebest41587 Wrote: When she says during the conversation that "I wasn't getting coaching", "I don't cheat", and his response is "and I know that", to me that's admitting you overstepped and shouldn't have made that call. That's presumably why she also said "you need to make an announcement I didn't get coaching" when the 2nd infraction happened.

I suggest you take another look.

When she was saying "I don't cheat" was when I said "I know that". And that wasn't all she said either. She was ranting about how she's not a cheater and she has a daughter and blah blah blah blah....His comment had nothing to do with her referencing the coaching.

She is being universally condemned for her childish ranting nonsense, and rightly so.
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#39
(2018-09-12, 06:27 PM)Limestoner Wrote:
(2018-09-12, 04:00 PM)thebest41587 Wrote: When she says during the conversation that "I wasn't getting coaching", "I don't cheat", and his response is "and I know that", to me that's admitting you overstepped and shouldn't have made that call. That's presumably why she also said "you need to make an announcement I didn't get coaching" when the 2nd infraction happened.

I suggest you take another look.

When she was saying "I don't cheat" was when I said "I know that". And that wasn't all she said either. She was ranting about how she's not a cheater and she has a daughter and blah blah blah blah....His comment had nothing to do with her referencing the coaching.

She is being universally condemned for her childish ranting nonsense, and rightly so.

I wouldn’t say she’s being universally condemned. She has a long list of defenders and they are out in force. It’s pretty disappointing to me seeing these defenders. She’s clearly in the wrong here, but they refuse to acknowledge it.
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I keep saying, and I don't think any of you are doing it (or maybe you guys simply don't have that competitive spirit), put yourself in her shoes. I know I would've argued too after that initial conversation with Ramos. Don't side with me after the fact, lead me to believe everything is good and then pile on, and think I'm going to take it.
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