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More delays for Lebreton?
#21
(2018-11-26, 01:11 PM)RyeRocks Wrote: They didn't appear to fight too hard for Atlanta though

Forgive the lack of insight, but was there an offer made from a local (Atlanta) buyer?
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#22
(2018-11-26, 01:14 PM)FashionPolice Wrote:
(2018-11-26, 01:11 PM)RyeRocks Wrote: They didn't appear to fight too hard for Atlanta though

Forgive the lack of insight, but was there an offer made from a local (Atlanta) buyer?

No idea, but didn't the coyote's get propped up by the league without an owner for years?
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#23
(2018-11-26, 01:30 PM)RyeRocks Wrote:
(2018-11-26, 01:14 PM)FashionPolice Wrote:
(2018-11-26, 01:11 PM)RyeRocks Wrote: They didn't appear to fight too hard for Atlanta though

Forgive the lack of insight, but was there an offer made from a local (Atlanta) buyer?

No idea, but didn't the coyote's get propped up by the league without an owner for years?

No one made a serious offer.

"I've been focused on trying to avoid this day," said Gearon, who was glassy eyed and broke down several times as he met with a small group of media at Philips Arena. "I spent time with possible investors going back four years ago, because I was concerned this day would come. I made a desperate plea in February. Unfortunately, that didn't lead to any real prospects. To be sitting here today is just awful for me."

espn,  june 2011
When sound found rhythm the dimensions of joy exploded.
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#24
Well, we know Ottawa has real prospects with more money then el cheapo...
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#25
Good breakdown of the legal battle here. Seems to me Melnyk might have legit beef.

Unfortunately for him, his past makes fans shoot first and ask questions later.

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...ottawa-ncc
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#26
Interesting, from the article AR posted:

Quote: The gist of the report, outlined in Melnyk’s statement of claim, is that Ottawa has a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to create a kind of Times Square in the empty LeBreton quarter. However, PwC concluded the sheer scale of Trinity’s $400-million condo-and-retail development at 900 Albert — with nearly 1,400 proposed units — would result in a rival centre of activity in an area of the city that has economic wealth to support just one.

Further, PwC concludes, the early commercial advantages belong to Ruddy. Not only would 900 Albert be the first to market its condos, PwC notes, but it would enjoy greater economies of scale because it is taller and require less spending to prepare the site for construction. Trinity should therefore be able to sell comparable units for less than would be the case on LeBreton Flats.

PwC’s research points to the need for a master development that includes both LeBreton Flats and 900 Albert, one that would create a single centre concentrated around the arena.

Under the terms of the teaming agreement signed in 2015 between Trinity and Melnyk’s subsidiary, Capital Sports Management Inc., Trinity was responsible for lining up lenders, condo buyers and retail tenants, while Melnyk’s job was to finance and build the arena and related sports entertainment facilities. The money to pay for all this infrastructure was to come from condo buyers, retail sales, NHL ticket surcharges and other streams of revenue.

To work, the LeBreton project required a critical mass of shoppers, ticket buyers and people who called the Flats home. Melnyk’s big concern, as detailed in his suit, was that 900 Albert would drain away potential revenues, leaving his portion of the RendezVous LeBreton project starved of cash.
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#27
(2018-11-27, 01:01 PM)Ryu65 Wrote: Interesting, from the article AR posted:

Quote: The gist of the report, outlined in Melnyk’s statement of claim, is that Ottawa has a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to create a kind of Times Square in the empty LeBreton quarter. However, PwC concluded the sheer scale of Trinity’s $400-million condo-and-retail development at 900 Albert — with nearly 1,400 proposed units — would result in a rival centre of activity in an area of the city that has economic wealth to support just one.

Further, PwC concludes, the early commercial advantages belong to Ruddy. Not only would 900 Albert be the first to market its condos, PwC notes, but it would enjoy greater economies of scale because it is taller and require less spending to prepare the site for construction. Trinity should therefore be able to sell comparable units for less than would be the case on LeBreton Flats.

PwC’s research points to the need for a master development that includes both LeBreton Flats and 900 Albert, one that would create a single centre concentrated around the arena.

Under the terms of the teaming agreement signed in 2015 between Trinity and Melnyk’s subsidiary, Capital Sports Management Inc., Trinity was responsible for lining up lenders, condo buyers and retail tenants, while Melnyk’s job was to finance and build the arena and related sports entertainment facilities. The money to pay for all this infrastructure was to come from condo buyers, retail sales, NHL ticket surcharges and other streams of revenue.

To work, the LeBreton project required a critical mass of shoppers, ticket buyers and people who called the Flats home. Melnyk’s big concern, as detailed in his suit, was that 900 Albert would drain away potential revenues, leaving his portion of the RendezVous LeBreton project starved of cash.

Is this PwC study commissioned by Melnyk? I also heard that Trinity has commissioned their own study?

So he/she said...

"To work, the LeBreton project required a critical mass of shoppers, ticket buyers and people who called the Flats home"

He did a wonderful job of pissing off fans, so now this side condo from Trinity is supposed to absolve him of his actions that ruined the franchise?

Or it must be Eric "locker room cancer" karlsson's fault?

Nah, it was all the cheap and fickle "fans" all along, why couldn't you just give all your money to Melnyk?
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#28
(2018-11-27, 04:51 PM)FashionPolice Wrote: Is this PwC study commissioned by Melnyk? I also heard that Trinity has commissioned their own study?

So he/she said...

"To work, the LeBreton project required a critical mass of shoppers, ticket buyers and people who called the Flats home"

He did a wonderful job of pissing off fans, so now this side condo from Trinity is supposed to absolve him of his actions that ruined the franchise?

Or it must be Eric "locker room cancer" karlsson's fault?

Nah, it was all the cheap and fickle "fans" all along, why couldn't you just give all your money to Melnyk?


So you're suggesting that he's just lying to get out of this investment? Why would Melnyk not want the arena to be built, it would automatically increase the value of the team the moment the arena is built and if he's in it for the long-term this would be a much better plan than to move the team and start over in another city.
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#29
(2018-11-27, 05:03 PM)Ryu65 Wrote:
(2018-11-27, 04:51 PM)FashionPolice Wrote: Is this PwC study commissioned by Melnyk? I also heard that Trinity has commissioned their own study?

So he/she said...

"To work, the LeBreton project required a critical mass of shoppers, ticket buyers and people who called the Flats home"

He did a wonderful job of pissing off fans, so now this side condo from Trinity is supposed to absolve him of his actions that ruined the franchise?

Or it must be Eric "locker room cancer" karlsson's fault?

Nah, it was all the cheap and fickle "fans" all along, why couldn't you just give all your money to Melnyk?


So you're suggesting that he's just lying to get out of this investment? Why would Melnyk not want the arena to be built, it would automatically increase the value of the team the moment the arena is built and if he's in it for the long-term this would be a much better plan than to move the team and start over in another city.

I'm sure Melnyk has his version of the truth, as well Ruddy with his version of the truth.

The only thing I know is Melnyk intends to pay for something now with potential future "increase in value of the team"  when an arena gets built in Lebreton, along with a portion of the condos.

FUTURE Potential != $$$ NOW

Sooner or later, people expect you to actually pony up the money (his debt situation doesn't help either).

As for staying or going, who knows what he wants? We heard him say both things. As mentioned before, I highly doubt the BOG is going to let him run a team in another city.
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#30
I'm not surprised we have come to an impasse. Calgary's talks recently broke down and it took Katz years and years of time and drama with Edmonton. Who can forget his trip to Seattle?

I just figured the hassle came over government funding for the arena. But I'm sure now Melnyk will be publically pushing for some cash now.
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#31
Old proposal McKenney: 900 Albert proposal doesn’t measure up

three towers of 59, 55 and 50 storeys atop a mixed-use podium. There will be 1,632 residential units, 10,864 square metres of retail space and 17,442 square metres of office space. 1,183 parking spaces distributed among four storeys of underground parking, five storeys of above-grade parking and 20 surface parking spots.

New proposal 65-storey Albert Street tower would be city's tallest | CBC News

three towers that are 65, 56 and 27 storeys, all on three-storey podiums, along with six levels of underground parking. 1,241 residential units plus office and retail space, with 1,059 parking spaces and 740 spots for indoor bike parking.

So, close to -400 residential units is now a threat to the Lebreton condos? Why wasn't he complaining when it was 1632 units?

[EDIT] Also, aren't the 900 Albert slated to be rental units and not condos? Correct me if wrong.
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#32
I think he was complaining privately to Ruddy about the 1,600 units if you read the Citizen story.

Watson said today Melnyk demanding that the City pay for the arena. I would not surprise me that rather risk a long lengthy public fight with a popular Mayor, Melnyk decided he was going to find another scapegoat like Ruddy.

It will be interesting to see if Trinity/Ruddy launch a counter suit and we get to see their allegations.
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#33
Yeah so Melnyk wanted the city to pay for the arena. It's easy to have grand visions when you don't have to pony up any money for the project yourself.

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Guess what? I got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell!
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#34
(2018-11-28, 05:02 PM)andreroy Wrote: I think he was complaining privately to Ruddy about the 1,600 units if you read the Citizen story.

Watson said today Melnyk demanding that the City pay for the arena. I would not surprise me that rather risk a long lengthy public fight with a popular Mayor, Melnyk decided he was going to find another scapegoat like Ruddy.

It will be interesting to see if Trinity/Ruddy launch a counter suit and we get to see their allegations.

With other condos going on around town, and fairly close to Lebreton:

845 Carling by Richcraft - 1100 units
505 Preston by Claridge - 250 units
101 Norman - 160 units
250 Parkdale - 500 units
99 Parkdale - 175 units
121 Parkdale - 230 units 

If somehow, Ruddy caved in to Melnyk's complaints and sold 900 Albert, what's to stop a another developer from putting up a condo (hey, it's REAL close to Lebreton)? Only difference is Melnyk won't be able to sue? So yes, this is just an excuse to throw mud on people who don't want to play by Melnyk's rules -- let everyone else pay & assume the risk.
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#35
Personally, I'm way beyond giving melnyk the benefit of the doubt. Right or wrong, he's earned it (from me anyways)
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#36
(2018-11-28, 06:08 PM)FashionPolice Wrote:
(2018-11-28, 05:02 PM)andreroy Wrote: I think he was complaining privately to Ruddy about the 1,600 units if you read the Citizen story.

Watson said today Melnyk demanding that the City pay for the arena. I would not surprise me that rather risk a long lengthy public fight with a popular Mayor, Melnyk decided he was going to find another scapegoat like Ruddy.

It will be interesting to see if Trinity/Ruddy launch a counter suit and we get to see their allegations.

With other condos going on around town, and fairly close to Lebreton:

845 Carling by Richcraft - 1100 units
505 Preston by Claridge - 250 units
101 Norman - 160 units
250 Parkdale - 500 units
99 Parkdale - 175 units
121 Parkdale - 230 units 

If somehow, Ruddy caved in to Melnyk's complaints and sold 900 Albert, what's to stop a another developer from putting up a condo (hey, it's REAL close to Lebreton)? Only difference is Melnyk won't be able to sue? So yes, this is just an excuse to throw mud on people who don't want to play by Melnyk's rules -- let everyone else pay & assume the risk.

Yes that would be the case. He can't sue for a conflict of interest.

But he would likely still not fund the arena stating that he didn't think the Lebreron condo project would be viable to generate the cash flows needed.

And I think thats a fair point knowing how the ottawa real estate market works: its solid so it can be lucrative but it's not bananas like Toronto or Vancouver. You could flood the market.

This position of Melnyks has been known for a while. he has said a few times before that it was a hard project to make work because it was a lot of housing supply in a city where theres no emerging need for a massive project from a housing point of view.
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#37
So he waits until the last minute to launch lawsuit, because he thought someone else would cave in and give him what he wants.

But no one lifted a finger while he held his breath, and now he's going home with his toy.

Enjoy Kanata with dwindling ticket sales, Eugene.
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#38
I dunno AR. There is a serious shortage of rental units in ottawa right now. Apparently the vacancy rate is one of the lowest ever here. And the housing market has been a massive sellers market the past two years too, and becoming moreso. Every agent will tell you the same thing. And that area is in massive demand.
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#39
Rentals are not condos of course. Lebreton needs the downpayments you get with Condos to generate the necessary cash flows.

The market might be hot right now, but these projects are 10-20 years away. The trends your real estate agent is talking about do not answer the basic question of "What is the long term demand for these units?"

There will be an inevitable economic downturn which will hit the Federal PS and cool the market once again. Ottawa is solid - growth is always guaranteed - but it's very rare there will be a huge accelerated growth period which happened in Toronto.
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#40
Ask the Zibi developers how hot the market is. I read yesterday they have sold a little over 100 units and it is just on the other side of the War Museum from Lebreton.
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