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NBA Playoffs Thread
(2018-11-12, 11:56 AM)duediligence Wrote:
(2018-11-11, 02:17 PM)Canuxxx Wrote:
(2018-06-12, 10:35 AM)duediligence Wrote:
(2018-06-08, 05:34 AM)bluejayyay Wrote: Calling George Hill an excellent player, especially at this point, is a stretch.  He was a 3rd option (in 49 games) on a 51 win team...that was swept by Golden State. 


Getting swept by one of the best teams ever assembled is hardly damning. Mind you i did not say they were a contender.. they were a good team, and Hill was a legit third option, averaging 17 points a game on 60% true shooting. Every advanced metric pegs him as no less than an excellent player: 1.9 career bpm, .143ws/48, .153 WP48, etc.


Kevin Love was a Top 10 player, but he's certainly not anymore.

He ceased to be a top 10 (or 20, or 30) player literally the instant he started playing with LeBron and largely became a floor spacer, which simply bolsters my point that LeBron‘s greatness can be quantified by the box score; he certainly isn’t making his teammates better in any significant way.

This Cavaliers team has no business being in the Finals - and as I wrote before, if you swap him out with Durant, Curry or Thompson I don't think they get to the Finals. 

I think a core of Durant/Love/Hill/TT/Korver could absolutely make the finals in this years East. KD’s off-ball ability would mesh with this offence quite well. I also think Love would be more effective playing with KD, and the spacing would be. better. Also, Nance is an excellent player, full-stop. Shame that Lue fails to see this.

Remember too that the Cavs needed 7 games to beat a middling Pacers team and a gutted Celtics team. Only against the Raptors were they particularly impressive.


And let's not forget guys like Hamilton, Nance, Clarkson, etc. showed up at the trade deadline. The Cavaliers team that's in the Finals was essentially put together a few months ago (aside from guys like Love and Thompson, of course).

Agreed, but the players they gave up more than made up for the chemistry issues IMO. Rose and Wade are nothing ballplayers at this stage of their careers...IT was horrendous...and Crowder was also awful (incidentally, he was a year removed from the best year of his career, make of that what you will)..getting rid of all those negatives was a massive step in the right direction, and they had half a year to build chemistry.

Korver is a great shooter, but he's also 37 years old.

True, but he’s still a net-positive on any team.

Let's put it this way - swap out Lebron with a 'star' like DeRozan, and I think this is a team that finishes near the bottom of the league.

I think they’d be a 10th-11th seed or so with DeRozan, but that’s due in no small part to DD’s proclivity for mindless iso ball and over reliance on the mid-range.

You’re selling this Cavs team a little short. They acquitted themselves just fine this year with LBJ off the court (I believe LeBrons +/- was a mere +2.0), and managed to finish 3rd in the league in 3pt makes (6th in %).

The problem with the Cavs is their roster management as much as it is their personnel. It may be in vogue to scapegoat JR, but there is no reason to play him 30 minutes a game. He is one of the worst starters in the league and the Cavs would become better simply by halving his minutes.

Anyhow, I don’t dispute that LeBron is the best player in the league or even that he is a viable GOAT candidate. I just think there is an overwhelming quantity of evidence that roundly debunks the idea that he has the ability to make other players any better than the average superstar does. His teammates shouldn’t shoulder ALL the blame for not acclimatizing to LeBron-ball, and in fact LeBron is partially to blame for limiting the effectiveness of some of the star players he’s played with. This becomes more obvious every time a) a great or serviceable player declines or sometimes becomes damn-near unplayable alongside LBJ and/or b) they have career years on other teams (think Kyrie this year).

Great points, thanks for setting out what is obvious to some of us. LeBron lovers go to great lengths in stating how wonderful he is and that his supporting cast were a bunch of dogs. That just isn't true.

Lol

Great insight . Thanks once again.

I mean, what else is there for me to say?

I warned you before the playoffs even started that LeBron by himself would beat your "deepest" and "greatest" Raptors team of all time. He did. And he didn't just beat them, he swept them. 

I told you that the Cavs without LeBron would finish last in the standings. Well, LeBron is now in LA and the Cavs now have umm...the worst record in the league.

So yeah. Lol.
                   
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I didn't realize Cleveland was 1-11.

Whatever you may think of some of their individual players, it's an awful team.

Even if you want to look at them individually, I can't say they have one standout performer. Love would be the closest, but his PER isn't very good.
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Still very early obviously....

But Lakers are actually in a playoff spot. (Though there is debate to how much LeBron has actually helped that)
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(2018-11-12, 07:26 PM)Chris D Wrote: Still very early obviously....

But Lakers are actually in a playoff spot. (Though there is debate to how much LeBron has actually helped that)

There certainly is, but I don't think there's much denying that James is an all time great. They're better off with him in the long run.

It's easy to forget, but in 1993/94 the Bulls were still a great team without Jordan - their record was almost identical to the previous year with Jordan. Even so, there's no denying they were much better off with him.
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The Bulls still had Scottie Pippen though who's one of the 50 greatest players of all time. So they were still good enough to win a lot of games.

LeBron needs a Scottie Pippen, a second star to challenge the Warriors. They're not going to challenge the Warriors this year though i expect them to make it to the Conference Finals.

Next year is the year where we make our run. I can't wait to see Klay Thompson or Kawhi Leonard in a Laker uni. One of them for sure is going to be a Laker.
                   
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If Lakers make the playoffs at all...first round exit...especially if they go in as 8th seed. Don't see their prospects any better as 6th or 7th seed either truth be told.
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The Lakers are the 2nd best team in the Conference. Why? because they have LeBron James. 

They got off to a bit of a slow start but it's early. They're just 3 games back of the #2 seed Blazers. And frankly, the Blazers don't scare me one bit lol.
                   
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????

Lakers are currently 11th seed...out of a playoff spot...4th in their division
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I'm not confident as Canuxxx that the Lakers will be the second best team in the West, but I'm a hell of a lot more confident in that then I am that the Lakers will miss the playoffs lol. Guys, debate whether LeBron is the best or 10th best player of all time - it doesn't matter. He's an all time great, his resume speaks for itself, and he's made a lot of analysts look silly by referencing the performance of his team mid-season (or god forbid early season) and saying they don't have what it takes. All you have to do is look at last year. We all know what happened in the playoffs.
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I'm 100% confident lol. It's november and we have LeBron James.

The Lakers will play the Blazers tonight who are the #2 seed in the West. If they beat them they'll just be 2 games back of the Blazers for the 2 seed lol.
                   
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I don't think LA will finish 2nd - there are too many other good teams in the West.
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Man...Cleveland is bad...

Down by 24...half way through the 2nd quarter.
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