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Player tracking technology could fundamentally change how we watch the game
#1
This is incredible. It looks like the NHL finally has it's own version of MLB's Statcast technology. Here's a snippet from the article:

https://theathletic.com/761837/2019/01/1...-the-game/

“I always use goalies as an example,” Lehanski said. “For the most part, there are two statistics everyone uses to evaluate goalies — save percentage and goals-against average. That’s really all there is.

“Once we do this, just think: You’re going to know where the shots were taken, who took the shots, how fast the puck was moving, whether or not it was deflected, whether or not there was anyone in front of the goal. Then you overlay that with the time of the game, score margin and you can start to look at goalie performance completely differently, like we never have before.”

Statistics and the numbers we use to analyze player and team performance will fundamentally change.

“My belief is there are so many great stories we aren’t telling,” Lehanski said. “There are a ton of players who are incredibly talented, invaluable and play a vital role, but no one can really understand why because they don’t have the stats. The other stories could be about amazing puck possession time. Whenever he has the puck he never loses it, and therefore we keep it in the zone longer. Things like that.”
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#2
I'm conflicted, I love stats but can't seem to get into the advanced ones in the MLB. The advanced one's in hockey are good enough for me but I'm open to new ones too
If you need a sign to stay alive tonight, this is it!
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#3
Great. So now we can see even more statistical proof that the Oilers suck.
"Hope is not a strategy"
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#4
"You’re going to know where the shots were taken, who took the shots, how fast the puck was moving, whether or not it was deflected, whether or not there was anyone in front of the goal.

Having played the position, I always thought it was unfair that these types of goals should somehow be a mark against goalies.
"I drink to make other people interesting"
~ E. Hemmingway
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#5
(2019-01-11, 01:56 PM)Limestoner Wrote: "You’re going to know where the shots were taken, who took the shots, how fast the puck was moving, whether or not it was deflected, whether or not there was anyone in front of the goal.

Having played the position, I always thought it was unfair that these types of goals should somehow be a mark against goalies.

 K.I.S.S.  t.m.i.     I just wanna watch the game. Leave the calculator on the shelf
 Proverbs 13:10
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#6
I can’t stand advance stat convos in baseball. It takes the fun out of the game. You can’t discuss players or the games without some nerd telling you that you don’t know anything because the stats he got off his nerd website trumps all. Hopefully this does not kill hockey conversation.
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#7
(2019-01-11, 01:56 PM)Limestoner Wrote: "You’re going to know where the shots were taken, who took the shots, how fast the puck was moving, whether or not it was deflected, whether or not there was anyone in front of the goal.

Having played the position, I always thought it was unfair that these types of goals should somehow be a mark against goalies.

My youngest son works part-time while he goes to school for a company called Stathletes that tracks this kind of information.

https://www.stathletes.com
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#8
LOL. Amazing really. There will always be those on the pro (for) side of this issue, and those who are on the con side.
The best position is probably somewhere in between.

If nothing else, it's interesting.
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#9
https://www.tsn.ca/nhl-tests-puck-and-pl...-1.1239869
cfl
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#10
(2019-01-12, 07:28 AM)GloryYrs70s Wrote:
(2019-01-11, 01:56 PM)Limestoner Wrote: "You’re going to know where the shots were taken, who took the shots, how fast the puck was moving, whether or not it was deflected, whether or not there was anyone in front of the goal.

Having played the position, I always thought it was unfair that these types of goals should somehow be a mark against goalies.

My youngest son works part-time while he goes to school for a company called Stathletes that tracks this kind of information.

https://www.stathletes.com

That's really interesting Glory, I'd never heard of this company.

And I agree 100% with Lime's point. Many goals against are the fault of the players in front of the goalie. There's clearly a better way to evaluate production from that position.

I don't know why people are so against being more informed about player contributions and improving the stats that we already use. No one is asking you to learn math or pull out a calculator lol - that's a ridiculous straw man argument. In many cases, the formulas behind stats like SV% and +/- would just be improved. They would still be scaled the same way and fans would have nothing new to learn or understand. The metrics would just be more accurate.
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#11
(2019-01-12, 05:55 AM)Nuclearsun Wrote: I can’t stand advance stat convos in baseball. It takes the fun out of the game. You can’t discuss players or the games without some nerd telling you that you don’t know anything because the stats he got off his nerd website trumps all. Hopefully this does not kill hockey conversation.

Sometimes it kills the hockey conversation.  Especially when people will cherry pick some small sample sizes of a players work to determine that they should be playing on the top line when in reality, you can plainly see the player sucks with your own two eyes.  It used to happen with Ryan Strome in Edmonton.  "But his corsi was fantastic in the 3 minutes he played with McDavid this year!"  Well, yeah, he was playing with the best player in the world and a puck went in off his knee.
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#12
I think that scenario speaks to the general misunderstanding fans have about advanced hockey stats. And I include myself in that group.

The mainstream media has done a poor job of educating us on the new stats. The conversations we're having aren't even the right ones because most of us lack a fundamental grasp of how to use them.
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#13
At the end of the day any statistical measure (new or otherwise) needs to pass the stink test; meaning really the eye test.

If they are flawed to begin with (like corsi, imo), fans will attribute less weight to them.

I'd also posit that advanced metrics are more useful for some sports than others. Hockey, for example, has far more in the way of "unintangibles" than baseball does when evaluating players. Things that don't show up on any scoresheet or advanced statistic. Imo anyways.
"I drink to make other people interesting"
~ E. Hemmingway
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#14
(2019-01-11, 01:08 PM)HockeyHippy Wrote: Great. So now we can see even more statistical proof that the Oilers suck.

It’ll be refreshing. Just going by wins/losses, GA/GF was getting so boring. It will be great if these stats are able to show what player contributes most on our team.
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#15
(2019-01-12, 02:39 PM)Limestoner Wrote: At the end of the day any statistical measure (new or otherwise) needs to pass the stink test; meaning really the eye test.

If they are flawed to begin with (like corsi, imo), fans will attribute less weight to them.

I'd also posit that advanced metrics are more useful for some sports than others. Hockey, for example, has far more in the way of "unintangibles" than baseball does when evaluating players. Things that don't show up on any scoresheet or advanced statistic. Imo anyways.

I would say Corsi is more limited than flawed. It does what it was intended to do, which is to measure the differential in shot attempts at 5v5 play. I think it's the application of it that's flawed, which is when people start to draw conclusions about a player's "possession ability" based on that one stat.

I think you're right that hockey is a tougher sport to quantify. I think if anything, this new tracking technology will help us understand some of the basics a lot better, like the example of shot quality and a goaltender's ability.
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#16
Bettman announces puck and player tracking to be implemented in all games starting next season


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#17
I heard on sportsnet during the boring pre skills show that it would be sometime next year. But they could be wrong
cfl
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#18
(2019-01-25, 09:27 PM)cflisthebest Wrote: I heard on sportsnet during the boring pre skills show that it would be sometime next year.  But they could be wrong

Yes, as per the post right above.....
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#19
Fox Trax?
"I drink to make other people interesting"
~ E. Hemmingway
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#20
(2019-01-12, 02:05 PM)Fritz Wrote:
(2019-01-12, 05:55 AM)Nuclearsun Wrote: I can’t stand advance stat convos in baseball. It takes the fun out of the game. You can’t discuss players or the games without some nerd telling you that you don’t know anything because the stats he got off his nerd website trumps all. Hopefully this does not kill hockey conversation.

Sometimes it kills the hockey conversation.  Especially when people will cherry pick some small sample sizes of a players work to determine that they should be playing on the top line when in reality, you can plainly see the player sucks with your own two eyes.  It used to happen with Ryan Strome in Edmonton.  "But his corsi was fantastic in the 3 minutes he played with McDavid this year!"  Well, yeah, he was playing with the best player in the world and a puck went in off his knee.

Yeah, advanced stats have a place in hockey but I can't stand the arrogant bloggers who act like they tell the whole picture. They just summarily write off a player based on some obscure stats and if you argue, they laugh at you like some dinosaur.
Humboldt Broncos SJHL April 6, 2018
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