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Raptors Next Moves - 2019/2020
#21
(2018-05-11, 10:39 AM)encore Wrote: And the search for a new coach begins

Jerry Stackhouse.
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#22
Has a "coach of the year" in ANY sport, been fired within days of being named COTY????????????????????????????????



Doubt it.
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#23
(2018-05-11, 03:17 PM)duediligence Wrote:
(2018-05-11, 02:38 PM)Chris D Wrote: with the same roster, and different coach, the team gets worse not better.

Not necessarily. I though Casey was OK as coach but certainly wasn't poor or great.


his W/L record sort of speaks for itself.  If people want to say the Raps were a bad team, than Casey has to have credit for the great regular seasons of the last few years.  What is it, only 3, maybe 4 coaches with better records the time Casey has been with the Raps?

team just won a team record 59 games, tops in the conference, and all the talk is how the core of the team needs changing, DD and/or Lowry need to go etc.

either Raps are a very good team and Casey is just "good"...or Raps are a good team that Casey made "very good" 

Raps can't be a bad team, with a bad coach.  the numbers don't bear it out.
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#24
(2018-05-11, 03:18 PM)duediligence Wrote:
(2018-05-11, 10:39 AM)encore Wrote: And the search for a new coach begins

Jerry Stackhouse.

I hope its him as well. Apparently, Casey wasn't involved i the offense as much as his assitants. I hope Stackhouse is similar to Triano in the ability to work well under pressure and come up with versatile plans that teams can follow after time outs (plays that result in a good steal or the Raps scoring).

One criticism I do have of Casey's coaching. He may have changed up how the Raptors played this year and it led to a 1st overall finish, but it became predictable basketball. Ujiri should help give Casey some options for new strategies with new players, but Casey could've tried experimenting with other players (specifically in developing and refining some new shooters)
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#25
Vegas knows something everyone else doesn’t.

The Raptors have just emerged as the odds on favourite to land Kawhi
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#26
Strange.

Not sure I'd want them to either.

It would be a huge haul, and there's an outstanding chance he's gone after a year.

Guess it could make a rebuild a necessity in a few years.
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#27
(2018-07-12, 12:55 PM)Unreal Wrote: Strange.

Not sure I'd want them to either.

It would be a huge haul, and there's an outstanding chance he's gone after a year.

Guess it could make a rebuild a necessity in a few years.

My guess is that it is their last run to the finals before they begin tearing everything down next off-season.
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#28
(2018-07-12, 12:55 PM)Unreal Wrote: Strange.

Not sure I'd want them to either.

It would be a huge haul, and there's an outstanding chance he's gone after a year.

Guess it could make a rebuild a necessity in a few years.

It's definitely one of those "swing for a homerun" types of moves that we talked about in another thread. 

If he commits and is healthy then it's a slam dunk. Kawhi was maybe the second best player in the NBA two years ago. However, if he dips after a year then the Raptors are likely worse off. It certainly could pay off, but it's a big gamble.
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#29
I'm down for an all I season. Team was too succesful last year during the regular season in order for them to do a proper rebuild. Going all in might give us a good shot of getting to the finals and then rebuilding if we can't go deep
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#30
Seems like the Raptors are still the front runner - apparently OG Anunoby would have to be included in any deal.

I didn't realize Leonard had such a significant injury history, aside from this year.

Given the high chance he'll leave and the possibility he may not be the same player and/or will miss a significant chunk of time I still have to question if it's worth it.

They may be better off growing their young core.
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#31
My guess would be the offer is Lowry, OG, and maybe a first round pick or Poeltl/Wright. I would hope that the deal would be dependent on Kawhi agreeing to an extension, otherwise that’s a massive risk. It’s a high price to pay, but prior to this past season I would have said Leonard was easily a top 5 player, if not 2 or 3. It’s a big time high risk, high reward type of deal. The addition of a healthy and committed Kawhi could put Toronto back in contention IMO.
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#32
(2018-07-17, 06:15 PM)encore Wrote: My guess would be the offer is Lowry, OG, and maybe a first round pick or Poeltl/Wright. I would hope that the deal would be dependent on Kawhi agreeing to an extension, otherwise that’s a massive risk. It’s a high price to pay, but prior to this past season I would have said Leonard was easily a top 5 player, if not 2 or 3. It’s a big time high risk, high reward type of deal. The addition of a healthy and committed Kawhi could put Toronto back in contention IMO.

Assuming he's healthy would that be worth it for one year?

The prospect of going into a rebuilt without OG, a 1st round pick (or two) or no Poetl/Wright could extend Toronto's misery for years after this window closes.
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#33
I don’t know if it’s worth it. If Kawhi is healthy and committed, he’s probably the second best player. Raptors could be a legit threat in the East. Considering the risk involved, I would think a fair trade would be a straight up swap with Derozan though.

Sounds like the deal is just about done. Supposedly the best “current and future” package, which would scare me if I’m a Raptors fan. Likely DD, OG, +. There’s been reports Kawhi has no interest in playing for Toronto, so it’s likely just a one year rental. Masai may be looking at it from the perspective of clearing cap space.
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#34
(2018-07-18, 05:22 AM)encore Wrote: I don’t know if it’s worth it. If Kawhi is healthy and committed, he’s probably the second best player. Raptors could be a legit threat in the East.  Considering the risk involved, I would think a fair trade would be a straight up swap with Derozan though.

Sounds like the deal is just about done. Supposedly the best “current and future” package, which would scare me if I’m a Raptors fan. Likely DD, OG, +. There’s been reports Kawhi has no interest in playing for Toronto, so it’s likely just a one year rental. Masai may be looking at it from the perspective of clearing cap space.

I was thinking similarily in regard to Kawhi's worth, with the questions surrounding him. DeRozan and a protected 1st I thought would've been ok. I knew DeRozan straight up wouldn't get it done, but I didn't think throwing much more in was necessary either.
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#35
Great trade for Toronto. With the existing team they weren't going to win. Why not roll the dice. They will have the best player in the east and a top 5 guy in the league.
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#36
Report: Raptors agree to trade DeMar DeRozan to Spurs for Kawhi Leonard

The Toronto Raptors have agreed to trade DeMar DeRozan to the San Antonio Spurs in exchange for Kawhi Leonard, according to ESPN’s Adrian Wojnarowski and Chris Haynes.

Danny Green is also heading to Toronto with the Raptors shipping Jakob Poeltl and a protected 2019 first-round draft pick to San Antonio in the blockbuster.

The Spurs had been underwhelmed by offers from other teams. Given Leonard’s impending free agency, other teams in trade talks like Philadelphia, Boston, and Portland were all reportedly unwilling to include an all-star calibre player in trade offers, which led the Raptors to take pole position in negotiations with San Antonio.

The report also states that neither Leonard nor DeRozan are “expressing enthusiasm” about the trade.

Wojnarowksi reports that DeRozan and longtime teammate Kyle Lowry spoke earlier this morning.

According to Haynes, sources close to DeRozan have said that Raptors brass met with their all-star guard in Las Vegas during Summer League and told him he would not be dealt.

Early morning Wednesday, DeRozan posted some vague messaging to his Instagram account. The notes began with: “Told one thing & the outcome another. Ain’t no loyalty in this game. Sell you out quick for a little bit of nothing…”

DeRozan is coming off his third straight all-star campaign for the Raptors, averaging 23 points and a career-best 5.2 assists per game. He was named to the All-NBA second team for the first time in his career after helping lead Toronto to its best regular season in franchise history, culminating in a franchise-record 59 wins and the No. 1 seed in the East.

Leonard appeared in just nine games last season due to a nagging right quad injury. Disputes over the diagnosis, recovery timeline, and subsequent treatment of the injury between Spurs team doctors and Leonard’s private doctors helped drive a spike through the all-star’s relationship with the team.

Leonard has a player option in his contract following next season, making him one of the biggest targets in the 2019 free-agent class, should he opt out. It is widely believed that he prefers to sign with the Los Angeles Lakers next summer, so selling Leonard on a long-term future in Toronto will be one of Masai Ujiri and the Raptors’ top priorities.

The 27-year-old forward was named Finals MVP in 2014 after winning the championship with San Antonio. He is a two-time Defensive Player of the Year Award winner (2015, 2016), and was the NBA’s MVP runner-up in 2016.




So they traded a healthy, loyal ALL Star for a broken down former All Star?

They lied to their star player.

Leonard does NOT want to play in Toronto and will leave after one season. (wonder if he plays more than nine games)

Raptors "WON" this bidding war because they OVERPAID. Others teams had more sense.

BAD DEAL
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#37
(2018-07-18, 09:58 AM)zapzac Wrote: Report: Raptors agree to trade DeMar DeRozan to Spurs for Kawhi Leonard

The Toronto Raptors have agreed to trade DeMar DeRozan to the San Antonio Spurs in exchange for Kawhi Leonard, according to ESPN’s Adrian Wojnarowski and Chris Haynes.

Danny Green is also heading to Toronto with the Raptors shipping Jakob Poeltl and a protected 2019 first-round draft pick to San Antonio in the blockbuster.

The Spurs had been underwhelmed by offers from other teams. Given Leonard’s impending free agency, other teams in trade talks like Philadelphia, Boston, and Portland were all reportedly unwilling to include an all-star calibre player in trade offers, which led the Raptors to take pole position in negotiations with San Antonio.

The report also states that neither Leonard nor DeRozan are “expressing enthusiasm” about the trade.

Wojnarowksi reports that DeRozan and longtime teammate Kyle Lowry spoke earlier this morning.

According to Haynes, sources close to DeRozan have said that Raptors brass met with their all-star guard in Las Vegas during Summer League and told him he would not be dealt.

Early morning Wednesday, DeRozan posted some vague messaging to his Instagram account. The notes began with: “Told one thing & the outcome another. Ain’t no loyalty in this game. Sell you out quick for a little bit of nothing…”

DeRozan is coming off his third straight all-star campaign for the Raptors, averaging 23 points and a career-best 5.2 assists per game. He was named to the All-NBA second team for the first time in his career after helping lead Toronto to its best regular season in franchise history, culminating in a franchise-record 59 wins and the No. 1 seed in the East.

Leonard appeared in just nine games last season due to a nagging right quad injury. Disputes over the diagnosis, recovery timeline, and subsequent treatment of the injury between Spurs team doctors and Leonard’s private doctors helped drive a spike through the all-star’s relationship with the team.

Leonard has a player option in his contract following next season, making him one of the biggest targets in the 2019 free-agent class, should he opt out. It is widely believed that he prefers to sign with the Los Angeles Lakers next summer, so selling Leonard on a long-term future in Toronto will be one of Masai Ujiri and the Raptors’ top priorities.

The 27-year-old forward was named Finals MVP in 2014 after winning the championship with San Antonio. He is a two-time Defensive Player of the Year Award winner (2015, 2016), and was the NBA’s MVP runner-up in 2016.




So they traded a healthy, loyal ALL Star for a broken down former All Star?

They lied to their star player.

Leonard does NOT want to play in Toronto and will leave after one season.  (wonder if he plays more than nine games)

Raptors "WON" this bidding war because they OVERPAID.  Others teams had more sense.

BAD DEAL

Leonard is a far superior player to DeRozan. It is worth the gamble. Are you happy with the Raptors the last 4 years? Something dramatic had to be done.
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#38
not doubting Leonard is better than Derozan (big note IF HEALTHY..which he hasn't been)...but this move for the Raps is a "win now or they are screwed" deal.

gave up their best player, and a 1st round pick (could be two 2nds)...for ONE year of Kawhi. (the Green/Poetl swap offset each other, with Raps getting a defensive uptick)

Kawhi is not returning..and they wont deal him at the deadline for anything..so he will be gone for nothing. They are losing a pick or perhaps two, so rebuilding that way will be off to a slow start.

If Raps don't win, they paid a heavy price, and will end up on the losing end of this deal. Won't even have to wait long to find out.
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#39
They very well could get something for Kawhi even if they don't trade him at the deadline. The Raptors can offer him roughly 45 million more than any other team can now. Sign and trade is a good possibility. Assuming they can't sell him on Toronto. Remember everyone thought Paul George was going to the Lakers too.
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#40
(2018-07-18, 11:24 AM)Chris D Wrote: not doubting Leonard is better than Derozan (big note IF HEALTHY..which he hasn't been)...but this move for the Raps is a "win now or they are screwed" deal.

gave up their best player, and a 1st round pick (could be two 2nds)...for ONE year of Kawhi. (the Green/Poetl swap offset each other, with Raps getting a defensive uptick)

Kawhi is not returning..and they wont deal him at the deadline for anything..so he will be gone for nothing.  They are losing a pick or perhaps two, so rebuilding that way will be off to a slow start.

If Raps don't win, they paid a heavy price, and will end up on the losing end of this deal.  Won't even have to wait long to find out.

You could argue Lowry has been their best player, overall.

DeRozan was likely here for two more years - as encore pointed out in the other thread, the Raptors may not have been too keen on keeping DeRozan around on a mega contract in his 30s.
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