Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Report: Alex Anthopoulos to be named Braves GM
#21
^ Moving the Wells contract is definitely worth pointing out. I think most people considered that the worst contract in baseball at the time.

I think AA's philosophy from 2009 until the Mets/Marlins trades was exactly what the franchise needed. His priorities were all in the right places - expand the scouting department, strengthen its International footprint, acquire additional draft picks through the compensation system, etc.

Where things went astray was fast-tracking it that offseason. But honestly, I still suspect Beeston and/or ownership had a hand in that.
Reply
Thanks given by:
#22
The Tulo trade is pretty bad. The SS they dumped (Reyes) has actually been better than Tulo over the past two seasons. Tulo has been in the bottom third among SS so far in his time with the Jays. And it stands to get a whole lot worse if Hoffman pans out. 


The Rockies should get a ton of credit for reading the situation correctly and selling on Tulo at pretty much the perfect time.
Reply
Thanks given by:
#23
(2017-11-14, 06:27 PM)shadylane Wrote: Some of the players they traded away are still young though. Marisnick might be emerging as an above average player and Anthony DeSclafini might still have mid-rotation upside if he comes back healthy next season. Yunel Escobar had value. Henderson Alvarez threw 187 innings of 2.65 ERA ball in 2014 so his value might've been even higher had the Jays hung onto him a bit longer.

The Jays could've moved these trade chips in other, better deals too. They could've identified younger players with more upside instead of veterans past their prime. The value of the players they traded away isn't solely tied to the form in which they currently exist.

Woulda, coulda, shoulda though. I'm glad Toronto had postseason baseball again. I just hope the next competitive cycle lasts a bit longer.

Exactly.  The Jays traded so many prospects; were they moved in the right deals?  That's debatable.
Reply
Thanks given by:
#24
(10 hours ago)Andrew Wrote: The Tulo trade is pretty bad. The SS they dumped (Reyes) has actually been better than Tulo over the past two seasons. Tulo has been in the bottom third among SS so far in his time with the Jays. And it stands to get a whole lot worse if Hoffman pans out. 


The Rockies should get a ton of credit for reading the situation correctly and selling on Tulo at pretty much the perfect time.

Miguel Castrol looked solid for Balitmore last year too, and he's only 22.

Too bad the Jays didn't try to acquire him - Baltimore paid nothing more than a PTBNL.
Reply
Thanks given by:
#25
(10 hours ago)Andrew Wrote: The Tulo trade is pretty bad. The SS they dumped (Reyes) has actually been better than Tulo over the past two seasons. Tulo has been in the bottom third among SS so far in his time with the Jays. And it stands to get a whole lot worse if Hoffman pans out. 


The Rockies should get a ton of credit for reading the situation correctly and selling on Tulo at pretty much the perfect time.

I see on BR Tulo is worth 4.8 wins since the trade, including 3.3 in 2016.


I see on BR Reyes is worth -0.5 wins since the trade. His best season as a Jay was 3.2.


The SS they dumped, really isn't a SS anymore either. He has 81 starts at SS, and 81 starts at 3B over the last 2 seasons.
Reply
Thanks given by:
#26
(11 hours ago)shadylane Wrote: ^ Moving the Wells contract is definitely worth pointing out. I think most people considered that the worst contract in baseball at the time.

I think AA's philosophy from 2009 until the Mets/Marlins trades was exactly what the franchise needed. His priorities were all in the right places - expand the scouting department, strengthen its International footprint, acquire additional draft picks through the compensation system, etc.

Where things went astray was fast-tracking it that offseason. But honestly, I still suspect Beeston and/or ownership had a hand in that.

Lol Wells was one of my favourite's on the Jays, I think after he got traded is when I unintentionally checked out.

From a complete casual noobs perspective, I think AA did what any good gm would do; acquire solid players, get rid of bad contracts, build the farm and then sell parts of it to go deep. Just makes you realize how hard it is to win in the MLB given the way the playoffs are. Definiteyly have a new found respect for the sport
If you need a sign to stay alive tonight, this is it!
Reply
Thanks given by:
#27
(7 hours ago)thebest41587 Wrote:
(10 hours ago)Andrew Wrote: The Tulo trade is pretty bad. The SS they dumped (Reyes) has actually been better than Tulo over the past two seasons. Tulo has been in the bottom third among SS so far in his time with the Jays. And it stands to get a whole lot worse if Hoffman pans out. 


The Rockies should get a ton of credit for reading the situation correctly and selling on Tulo at pretty much the perfect time.

I see on BR Tulo is worth 4.8 wins since the trade, including 3.3 in 2016.

Well for starters I said over the past two seasons and both FG  (2.9 fWAR vs 3.3) and BP (2.3 WARP vs 3.1) have Reyes as the better player over that span.  If you want to exclude defence which, as usual, is the sticking point Reyes posted a 99 wRC+, .318 wOBA in 840 PA's to Tulo's 95 wRC+ and, .315 wOBA in 804 PA's. 

At best the Jays gave away a top pitching prospect for the same declining, expensive SS they already had.


Quote:The SS they dumped, really isn't a SS anymore either. He has 81 starts at SS, and 81 starts at 3B over the last 2 seasons.

If the Jays did not already have Donaldson I would bet money that Tulo would be shifting to 3B as well.
Reply
Thanks given by:
#28
(2 hours ago)Andrew Wrote:
(7 hours ago)thebest41587 Wrote:
(10 hours ago)Andrew Wrote: The Tulo trade is pretty bad. The SS they dumped (Reyes) has actually been better than Tulo over the past two seasons. Tulo has been in the bottom third among SS so far in his time with the Jays. And it stands to get a whole lot worse if Hoffman pans out. 


The Rockies should get a ton of credit for reading the situation correctly and selling on Tulo at pretty much the perfect time.

I see on BR Tulo is worth 4.8 wins since the trade, including 3.3 in 2016.

Well for starters I said over the past two seasons and both FG  (2.9 fWAR vs 3.3) and BP (2.3 WARP vs 3.1) have Reyes as the better player over that span.  If you want to exclude defence which, as usual, is the sticking point Reyes posted a 99 wRC+, .318 wOBA in 840 PA's to Tulo's 95 wRC+ and, .315 wOBA in 804 PA's. 

At best the Jays gave away a top pitching prospect for the same declining, expensive SS they already had.


Quote:The SS they dumped, really isn't a SS anymore either. He has 81 starts at SS, and 81 starts at 3B over the last 2 seasons.

If the Jays did not already have Donaldson I would bet money that Tulo would be shifting to 3B as well.

A top pitching prospect who so far in 131 major league innings, is a negative WAR player. Like I said before, still time for that to change, but let's not act like he's set the world on fire already here.

BR has the players Colorado acquired accumulating -1.0 WAR during there time in Colorado so far, and Hoffman is the only one still in the organization. Tulo is at 4.8. So nearly 6 wins difference. Calling the Tulo trade pretty bad for the Jays, is a bit much right now for me.
Reply
Thanks given by:
#29
I don't think the Jays make the playoffs in 2015 without Tulo...just his defence alone was a marked improvement from what Reyes had been giving them. Tulo had 1.4 bWAR in only 41 games with the Jays. Reyes had .6 bWAR in 69 games with the Jays, and -.3 the rest of the season with Colorado.

then Reyes was .4 bWAR in 2016...to Tulo's 3.3

even a really bad year for Tulo last year, Reyes was -.6, to Tulo's .1...even with Reyes playing more than double the games.

not seeing where Reyes was the better player...at all.
Reply
Thanks given by:
#30
(1 hour ago)thebest41587 Wrote: BR has the players Colorado acquired accumulating -1.0 WAR during there time in Colorado so far, and Hoffman is the only one still in the organization. Tulo is at 4.8. So nearly 6 wins difference. Calling the Tulo trade pretty bad for the Jays, is a bit much right now for me.

Its amusing that you insist on using the only metric that supports your point while ignoring everything else that doesn't. Its also amusing that you are now only using their time in Colorado as opposed to their entire resume since being traded. You are comparing 47 games of Jose Reyes to 238 of Tulowitzki. How is that even close to a realistic comp?

Whatever. I gave you the evidence, if you want to ignore feel free.

Quote:not seeing where Reyes was the better player...at all.

Really? Because I just showed where pretty conclusively.
Reply
Thanks given by:
#31
1.4 is better than -.3 (using the time in 2015 after the trade)

3.3 is a lot better than .4

While negligible, .1 is still better than -.6

Those are the bWARs over last 3 seasons...Tulo has been better in all of them, including last season when he only played 44 games.
Reply
Thanks given by:


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)