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State of emergency in Charlottesville ..White Nationalist March
(11 hours ago)poppabyrd Wrote:
(Yesterday, 04:25 PM)CTS Wrote: Why does questioning the removal of civil war era monuments have anything to do with Nazis?

Nazis weren't around during the civil war & I could give a shit about the people protesting in Charlottesville.

What would be the difference between the Klan (which had significant presence from the Civil War until today) and the Nazis?

I believe the main differences is that the KKK's #1 target is blacks, while the Nazi's #1 target are Jews. They both hate other minorities and gays, but their priority differs. I have also heard the KKK has religious ties while the Nazi movement is mainly political.
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I might have mentioned this already, but I was very surprised how consitently the Klan/White Supremacist movement is anti-semetic. The Klan is also very anti Roman-Catholic.
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(11 hours ago)Arsenal Wrote: There's something offensive in every memorial in the world if you look hard enough.  Surely there's something to be learned from the ugliness of history, as well as the good?  

My old school, Ryerson is currently working through a bit of controversy regarding the statue of Egerton Ryerson...
"There are demands to remove the Egerton Ryerson statue from its spot (since the 1890s) on Gould St. and to change Ryerson’s name to one “that does not celebrate a man who supported and created the structures of colonial genocide.”

Shall we pull it down?

If society is determined to flood the landscape with statues honoring people, there is no shortage of decent people to put in bronze.

Hell, put up statues of Ronald Reagan and Bush Jr.
 I was no fan but they are not an insult to me like Confederates are to blacks.
Would love to see a plethora of Obama statues erected in the south to commemorate him capturing Osama Bin laden.
Maybe a bronze plaque of his Birth certificate mounted outside Trump tower.
"I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned"
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(6 hours ago)Lagavulin Wrote:
(11 hours ago)Arsenal Wrote: There's something offensive in every memorial in the world if you look hard enough.  Surely there's something to be learned from the ugliness of history, as well as the good?  

My old school, Ryerson is currently working through a bit of controversy regarding the statue of Egerton Ryerson...
"There are demands to remove the Egerton Ryerson statue from its spot (since the 1890s) on Gould St. and to change Ryerson’s name to one “that does not celebrate a man who supported and created the structures of colonial genocide.”

Shall we pull it down?

If society is determined to flood the landscape with statues honoring people, there is no shortage of decent people to put in bronze.

Hell, put up statues of Ronald Reagan and Bush Jr.
 I was no fan but they are not an insult to me like Confederates are to blacks.
Would love to see a plethora of Obama statues erected in the south to commemorate him capturing Osama Bin laden.
Maybe a bronze plaque of his Birth certificate mounted outside Trump tower.

Lol that last line is awesome Lag. I wish there was a national campaign to mail Trump copies of Obama's birth certificate
If you need a sign to stay alive tonight, this is it!
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(Yesterday, 04:25 PM)CTS Wrote: ^^^^ you're misinterpreting my post.   To clarify, when I said minority I meant the opposite of majority.   Less than half, etc.

Why does questioning the removal of civil war era monuments have anything to do with Nazis?

Nazis weren't around during the civil war & I could give a shit about the people protesting in Charlottesville.

Everybody who lived during the civil war era would be considered racist to some extent by todays standards!  

What about Thomas Jefferson?   The declactation of independence needs to be torn up & whitewashed too since he wrote most of it.

There's a lot of cherry picking going on about whose statue stays & whose gets removed.  This is the point I'm trying to make.  Which I know will some how get twisted into something else like racism.  I find that most disturbing

Fine.

Replace "Nazis" with "White Supremacists" .

This isn't about getting rid of monuments to anyone who owned slaves; it's about not publicly honouring people who made it their life's work to deny rights to blacks/slaves and other minorities.

And as it's been pointed out more than once, these aren't Civil War era monuments.
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Perhaps Islam has it right? Aniconism is the way.
Courage, my word, it didn't come, it doesn't matter.
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(Yesterday, 10:23 AM)HockeyHippy Wrote:
(Yesterday, 10:01 AM)Arsenal Wrote: So, let's whitewash history?   Didn't Washington own slaves?

Aren't all monuments art, and therefore subject to interpretation?

To an extent, yes - but a degree of common sense must prevail.

Let's use the example of the statue of Roger Taney in Baltimore. Taney was a Supreme Court Justice most famous for the Dred Scott decision, which decreed that African Americans were not human, had no rights, and were property. It was among the most disgusting decisions in legal history, and a tragic example of how blacks and whites were viewed differently by the justice system. 

Can you see why his statue in front of a court house might send a distasteful message to people going in? A statue of a justice who decreed that the law viewed blacks and whites differently?

Of course, it's made even worse when one realizes the political context the statue was erected in. That particular statue was erected specifically to remind newly freed blacks that their freedom came from the goodness of whites, and could be taken away. 

Do you really want to argue that a statue of Taney, erected for the purpose of reminding blacks of their place, should be kept outside a public building? What does that say about you?

That may indeed have been the original purpose of the statue when it was erected 135 years ago.  It's modern day presence, however, can be debated.  It's most certainly a terrible reminder to blacks of historical injustices.  It's also a reminder to whites of past sins against humanity.  Perhaps hanging out the dirty laundry for all to see creates opportunities for true healing?

Without the statue, we could not have witnessed the spectacle when Taney's ancestor was forgiven by Scott's ancestor.  That human gesture was inspired by a piece of art.
Courage, my word, it didn't come, it doesn't matter.
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