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The all-time top 10 action movies
(2018-07-10, 08:10 AM)Hieremias Wrote: I listened to a podcast and had a good long movie talk with a couple friends and then I watched TLJ for a second time, and probably 80% of my objections to it disappeared. It's a decent 3/5 for me now. Not as enjoyable as Force Awakens but I understand why they couldn't keep going down that path of retreading the original movies. 

I rethought the whole issue with Laura Dern's character and with how they treated Luke. In particular I thought the Poe vs Holdo conflict was very well done and had a lot to say about sexism and toxic masculinity. We naturally assumed Poe was correct because he was one of the heroes and male, whereas his actions in the movie demonstrated he'd made mistake after mistake and was never deserving of Holdo's trust.


Huh. I've had trouble putting my finger on what exactly bugged me about TLJ, but I think you have it. Subverting some expectations is great, especially in a long-lived franchise. Lord knows FA didn't subvert a single expectation. 

But when you subvert every expectation, it becomes more of a deconstruction of the genre than an actual coherent story in its own right. And that's not really the point of the mainline franchise. 

And Rey as a character does nothing for me. She doesn't seem to have any real character arc in TLJ - she doesn't develop as a character, but instead just reacts to stimuli around her. Two movies into the franchise, and I still struggle to understand her motivations. 

Plus the casino subplot - really most of Finn's subplots - were pointless. He doesn't seem to achieve anything of consequences. He's like the Nail Yakupov of characters - he's frenetic throughout, looking like he's being chased by bees - but he doesn't really get anything done.
"Hope is not a strategy"
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Finn is a guy running from the job/life he had and is really only driven by friendship/love. Which is intentional on the writers part. He's supposed to look like he's being chased by bees. Its a lot more real than usual, actually. Throw me in the middle of a war and I'll be the guy on the run too.
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I think the Rose character was put in by Disney to boost appeal in China. Not trying to be racist, it's just really common these days in blockbusters to have a Chinese supporting character who is noble and self-sacrificing, and that's not an accident. Only a certain number of western films get released in China, they first have to appeal to the Chinese censors and then the public. And Force Awakens didn't do that well in China so this was Disney trying to increase exposure in that market.

And then tying her to Finn was because Rian Johnson didn't really know what to do with Finn. He really didn't fit into the main story, yet Force Awakens built him up as a main character so he kind of had to stick around. He had great chemistry with Rey in Force Awakens but I don't think they shared a single scene in Last Jedi.
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(2018-07-10, 03:56 PM)RyeRocks Wrote: Finn is a guy running from the job/life he had and is really only driven by friendship/love.  Which is intentional on the writers part.  He's supposed to look like he's being chased by bees.  Its a lot more real than usual, actually.  Throw me in the middle of a war and I'll be the guy on the run too.

There's nothing wrong with his characterization - he has more motivation than Rey or Poe. 

It's just his plot. Ultimately, what did he accomplish? 

He went to the casino planet, had some adventures, landed on the Death Star analogue, failed at breaking the code or whatever, and escaped because of Holdo's sacrifice. Then he prepared his suicide run on the big cannon, but didn't achieve anything there, and then Rose sacrificed herself to save him. 

Plot wise, every one of his scenes could have been cut, and nothing would have been any different.
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Which feels more realistic to me. Exactly the point I'm making
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He's the first real character in a while
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The guy was trained as a Storm Trooper, so I guess it kind of makes sense that he never really gets anything done.
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Plus he's hardly hero material. Just a guy scared shitlless and on the run. Far more real
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The original Robocop and Predator hold up.
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I would debate Robocop but Predator is almost as good as it gets for action movies.
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Robocop is pure cheese but the action scenes are quite good.

Predator 2 is also under rated. It beats anything Predator related since and is still about 100 times better looking than the new trailer
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