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The unthinkable? Trade Gallagher?
#1
Before I get lambasted....let's consider that Gallagher is on a fantastic contract, his value likely at an all time high after a 30 goal season and still in prime years...so why the hell would I consider trading him? To be brutally honest this one would be painful...it is painful even considering it.....Gallagher is my sons favourite player by a landslide...always has been....and I would not want this to happen however, if I remove the heart side of it and look at it with my head I have to think other teams would be inquiring about him and willing to pay a steep price.....and the team that the Habs seem most suited to dance with is the Oilers....but I feel Patch has limited value to them. Gallagher? is a friend of LUcic, is exactly the type of productive, affordable, gritty winger the Oilers need so badly....then again every team needs a Gallagher. The Habs have well documented issues in the middle...the Oilers have issues at wing and in the cap space dept.

So any deal that included Gallagher me would be hurtful and have to be worth it AND would only be doable if the team was signing another leader like Tavares...AND knew they could get another good winger via UFA.


So anyways...here is my Edm proposal.....WARNING this will hurt to fathom.

Gallagher, Alzner, 3rd ROUND (not overall), Victor Mete and Byron to Edmonton

RNH, Klefbom and Edm 10th overall to Montreal

So HAbs get a top 6 C and a top 4 LD....signed and locked into lineup for at least 3 seasons in Nuge and 5 in Klefbom...and they get a 10th overall...this is why I like this deal.

Oilers get help on wing and Gallalgher would score a ton of goals going to net in EDM, Byron plays with speed, Mete will be more suited to Edm game than ours and would flourish....they eat Alzner contract but they can use a guy like that as they have so many other speedier guys to offset his game and he can stay at home for someone.

At this point our team is not really any better...but has plugged two gaping holes and still have tons of cap space, our other key bargaining chip in Pacioretty. We also now have room higher up in lineup to accelerate growth of Zadina and even Scherbak who I expect to have a breakout season this year....and I expect same from Lehkonen...I think this year both of those guys are going to be significant contributors.

NOW...would Tavares or Stastny sign  knowing team got rid of that many roster guys? I believe so...in fact I believe that this would actually help our chances at another UFA wing or  LD...as there are now legit openings and the team will now be looking good for foreseeable future...as there is a very good chance that after Patch deal as well that they end up with three first round picks...with one being Zadina .....if we all consider at this point that we now have Poehling and the three first rounders from this year that should in theory be 3 top 9 forwards and a top 4 d in pipeline...just out of those alone...yeah may not work out BUT may work out better actually, could wind up with two top 3 guys...it is a gamble but one I think I take.

This would be one painful trade ...for both parties....but in end I think it would help both teams as Oilers could use stabilizing presence of Alzner more than Montreal, they could better use Byron's speed game and cap savings (imagine McD/Byron PK duo? scary as hell...I might decline the PP), they could REALLY USE a guy like Gallagher and Mete would fit like a glove
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#2
Honestly I have no interest in trading Gallagher. My plan for Gallagher would be to keep him and give him the captaincy.

I do get where you are coming from, you have to give to get and the fact they are taking Alzner is also a big bonus. Still, for a team that has a lot of trouble scoring you are trading away 50 goals up front right there. RNH probably can get you between 20-25 a season, but he is an excellent 2nd line centre, not a 1st.

Klefbom would certainly help the D immediately so you bolster that, but you give up on Mete a young D with a ton of potential. That always worries me when you do something like that.

I know we are extremely desperate for help down the middle, but that would be giving up a lot in Gallagher and Byron up front. Those are literally the two forwards who had nothing to be ashamed about last season, they were our leaders up front and those are the types of "character" guys and guys with great "attitudes" who also produce that you would think Bergevin was referring to in his press conference. Cant see those guys going anywhere

I dont know, its very tough. Not easy being a GM thats for sure
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#3
I would do it, just show me where to sign!

I love Gallagher, but my worry is that just like Gionta and many other smaller guys, the decline will come quite rapidly especially considering the beatings Gally takes. Plus, as mentioned, we are plugging huge holes in our roster by trading our strength at it's highest value! Buy low and sell high...
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#4
First of all...just forget about anyone taking Alzner unless it is a dump type deal.

Also I don't think Gally is enough to get RNH.

Based on what I read about the Oilers, they are looking to ADD to their line-up first hence the 10th pick being in play. Obvioulsy they will subtract if need be for cap reasons.

Number one thing they want is a top-4 RH Dman. Next is another top-6 forward without losing one.

Like I told Scriptor, if you want a former number 1 pick overall center then you have to pay. It starts with IMO the 3rd overall or  Weber.
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#5
If you want a Gally trade suggestion, how about the 10th pick and Yamamoto for him?

Oilers get their ready top-6 forward under contract. Habs get Gally's replacement and a center prospect.

Of course short term it hurts but long term they just landed two top-6 players.
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#6
(2018-05-16, 09:13 AM)DDO_Habs_Fan Wrote: First of all...just forget about anyone taking Alzner unless it is a dump type deal.

Also I don't think Gally is enough to get RNH.

Based on what I read about the Oilers, they are looking to ADD to their line-up first hence the 10th pick being in play. Obvioulsy they will subtract if need be for cap reasons.

Number one thing they want is a top-4 RH Dman. Next is another top-6 forward without losing one.

Like I told Scriptor, if you want a former number 1 pick overall center then you have to pay. It starts with IMO the 3rd overall or  Weber.
Gally IMO is enough to get RNH...singed longer and 2.25 million cheaper, produces more goals and does something that nobody else in the entire NHL does as well.....in fact I think Habs get the premiuim on that deal due the to the cap savings/term diff.  Gallagher is also from there.
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#7
I'd trade Gallagher for that 10th overall.

Love Gallagher, but I doubt he scores 30 again (unless he's playing with McD).
He's on a great contract, and he's a great player, but sooner rather than later, his body will break down.

With Zadina the most likely pick, you're replacing (and eventually upgrading, hopefully) the offense with him.
With the 10th overall, you may have a shot at offense/centre types Wahlstrom/Kotkaniemi (ideally) or Hayton/Veleno... and definitely, a solid defense prospect would be there.

While I don't think your proposal is reasonable as the Oilers are giving a lot more than getting, I do think a Gallagher trade isn't unreasonable and should be considered.

But, if you did dump Gallagher and trade Max (as expected) you might as well keep dumping (Price/Weber) and just totally blow it all up...
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#8
(2018-05-16, 09:22 AM)krob1000 Wrote:
(2018-05-16, 09:13 AM)DDO_Habs_Fan Wrote: First of all...just forget about anyone taking Alzner unless it is a dump type deal.

Also I don't think Gally is enough to get RNH.

Based on what I read about the Oilers, they are looking to ADD to their line-up first hence the 10th pick being in play. Obvioulsy they will subtract if need be for cap reasons.

Number one thing they want is a top-4 RH Dman. Next is another top-6 forward without losing one.

Like I told Scriptor, if you want a former number 1 pick overall center then you have to pay. It starts with IMO the 3rd overall or  Weber.
Gally IMO is enough to get RNH...singed longer and 2.25 million cheaper, produces more goals and does something that nobody else in the entire NHL does as well.....in fact I think Habs get the premiuim on that deal due the to the cap savings/term diff.  Gallagher is also from there...and remember they use him as a winger because they have Leon...and they need some cap space so to get 4 contributors for 2 and actually be the team gaining in goal production? and they get the more ready younger player in Mete which also helps their future cap situation...I think  the deal is painfully fair for both teams...but that is just me...in a deal like that with players both fans love there will always be divide and differing opinions on value...
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#9
If the Oilers are trading three plus plus assets (Klefbom, Nuge and the 10th overall), they are going to be getting an elite player, not a package of lesser players (not saying they aren't good but "lesser" than elite).

There is no way the Oilers are giving up those three assets and the best player they get back is Gallagher - very good player but not the type of asset the organization would require in that type of deal.
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#10
I think that the responses will be hilarious. Last offseason, while people didn't like the idea of losing Gallagher on our end, they thought that he wouldn't be worth enough to land Nugent-Hopkins as part of a package and EDM fans laughed it off, if I recall correctly. Now, it's a whole different story. I predict MON fans will start bonfires in the streets if Gallagher is traded and EDM fans, as always, expect the next Gretzky at league minimum for the precious services of Nugent-Hopkins who hasn't yet lived up to his draft ranking (like a few others haven't on that team). Not to mention that he earns a lot of money for his role on the team up to the time where he was played out of position on the McDavid line (at season's end) for lack of anything better. With the other useless husks eating up Cap space, both up front and on D, something has to give over there if they want to really take the next step.

Chiarelli has made a mess of things in EDM, IMHO, and the fans there deserve better, as the fans in MON also do, but their expectations aren't realistic at all given the mess that they are in. There certainly is a lack of projection on the part of Edmonton fans to see the potential of skilled wingers, underperforming elsewhere without a real C, given the chance of playing with either of McDavid or Draisaitl.

The same way that players traditionally score less points once they come to the Habs, all the way back to the 80s, I expect that offensive players not dragged down by a lack of speed and finesse would see a spike in production once on the top two lines in EDM. That is how Chiarelli will make a good trade, by banking on the right player to be propelled even higher once in EDM, not by looking for the next Kurri-performing play to come their way in a trade for one of their overpriced knuckle draggers (direct jab at Lucic). A Kurri-esque producing player would already cost too much for their Cap situation.

As for analyzing your deal. IMO, Gallagher VS RNH, straight up is at least a match, but for a team like EDM that has a ton of skill but lacks the oomph to get over the hump, his value is greater than RNH straight up. In the past, it was those intangibles -- his ability to jump start any line and all manners of players, regardless of skill level and his leadership qualities -- that made the swap fair.

Now, with 31 goals proving that Gallagher can become a Marchand-like producer as well, his worth just skyrocketed. Don't ask the fans. Ask ANY NHL GM! He's a management type's wet dream; always 200%, goal production, antagonistic, leadership, brilliant 3.75M Cap hit, two-way winger, etc., etc...

Even if you consider Gallagher-RNH a wash (which I don't, anymore), it leaves #66 pick, Byron and Mete for Klefbom. Say what you want, but that might be more than a fair deal for EDM, considering all the Cap relief that they also get as a bonus. Does it hurt MON, as you suggested? It certainly does because you lose two of the team's locomotives in Gallagher and Byron and a cost-controlled, lightning fast, puck-moving LHD in Mete that can play for the next 17 years, maybe more.

Not sure I would do that trade myself. RNH is too soft to lose a player like Gallagher, IMO. I'd rather get O'Reilly than RNH if I had to give up Gallagher so as not to lose too much grit in the process. That said, I'm not against trading Gallagher if the return is good. Not fair -- Good! It's the intangibles associated with Gallagher that make for that need. I don't see those intangibles in Nugent-Hopkins, personally. I see them in Draisaitl (from his play in the playoffs two years ago where he raised his level of play), but not in Nugent-Hopkins.

I may have omitted to see the #10 coming our way as well. I don't know. I'm thinking that MON staying away from any kind of trade with EDM would be best Wink
Ancient Chinese Proverb: A mosquito landing on your testicle should help you realize that violence doesn't solve every problem
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#11
What's with all the love for RNH? His best seasons production-wise was back in 13/14 and 14/15 with pretty much identical seasons of 56 points. He played 55 games 2 seasons ago and 62 this season.
If the Habs have to give up Gallagher, why the bleep would you be going for this guy?
Gallagher +++ for a Draisatl type? For sure. But, for RNH? No, no, 1000 times no.
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#12
(2018-05-16, 10:06 AM)Cal Wrote: What's with all the love for RNH? His best seasons production-wise was back in 13/14 and 14/15 with pretty much identical seasons of 56 points. He played 55 games 2 seasons ago and 62 this season.
If the Habs have to give up Gallagher, why the bleep would you be going for this guy?
Gallagher +++ for a Draisatl type? For sure. But, for RNH? No, no, 1000 times no.

lol...the Oil fans are pissed the other way...both guys are fan faves....that is what I thought would happen because it may actually be a fair deal....
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#13
no, no and no..I don't have any fancy answers like the rest of you..its just no...heart and soul of a Lion..one of our few light spots...no..plus I love him..Honey Badger is untouchable..go away
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#14
(2018-05-16, 10:06 AM)Cal Wrote: What's with all the love for RNH? His best seasons production-wise was back in 13/14 and 14/15 with pretty much identical seasons of 56 points. He played 55 games 2 seasons ago and 62 this season.
If the Habs have to give up Gallagher, why the bleep would you be going for this guy?
Gallagher +++ for a Draisatl type? For sure. But, for RNH? No, no, 1000 times no.

Agreed. RNH too soft and I can't imagine how EDM would be looking for anything elite in exchange for him. The Cap situation in EDM puts them in a beggar's market, IMHO and the fans will be lucky to get the types of offers they would like so long as that situation prevails. It's kind of funny to hear some of them act as choosers. Buy out a few bad contracts to free up some Cap space before you do that -- or try to move them if you can, but it will likely cost you assets to get it done, I'm pretty sure.

In most suggestions I make (especially the ones that don't involve Pacioretty, as he won't be a fit because his contract is due up next year), I'm more than generous, but most fans there are overly finicky, IMO, especially considering the chimp that they have as GM and the Cap chasm they have fallen into.

It makes sense that Chiarelli would trade his 10th overall because he's got talented youth on the team already and could likely afford to lose a prospect for a player that is NHL ready, but what do EDM fans seriously expect the 10th pick to be worth? A 70-point, 60-point, 50-point producing forward entering his prime? An established, young D to eat plenty of minutes on the right side and contribute valuable offense from that position? That's not happening. Not for a top-10 pick alone and, no, adding Lucic to the mix or a D that misses 20+ games in most seasons played won't sweeten the pot either. A top-5 pick in a really talented draft might get you that from an overly stacked team fighting with the Cap and looking to ad future talent to keep the Cup window open longer, but you're also fighting with the Cap and that precious Cup window in EDM is still partially covered with soot on the outside where it's more difficult to get at it. That's a bit of a conundrum, no?

Until EDM sorts out their financial mess, they should expect little in terms of relief on the ice and look towards getting another lottery pick, IMHO, as long as they hold out for miracle trades where they get the best player in the deal and, at the same time, succeed in shedding useless Cap leeches. There's too much talent on that team for that to happen, on the surface, but the team certainly has managed to pull off subpar seasons despite that with an alarming regularity.

I'd personally love to have EDM's problem because there has appeared to be and continues to appear to be tons of hope. How that doesn't finally materialize is beyond me. It's as though the GM must be doing o purpose for it to fail.
Ancient Chinese Proverb: A mosquito landing on your testicle should help you realize that violence doesn't solve every problem
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#15
(2018-05-16, 09:33 AM)Guy Smiley Wrote: I'd trade Gallagher for that 10th overall.

Love Gallagher, but I doubt he scores 30 again (unless he's playing with McD).
He's on a great contract, and he's a great player, but sooner rather than later, his body will break down.

With Zadina the most likely pick, you're replacing (and eventually upgrading, hopefully) the offense with him.
With the 10th overall, you may have a shot at offense/centre types Wahlstrom/Kotkaniemi (ideally) or Hayton/Veleno... and definitely, a solid defense prospect would be there.

While I don't think your proposal is reasonable as the Oilers are giving a lot more than getting, I do think a Gallagher trade isn't unreasonable and should be considered.

But, if you did dump Gallagher and trade Max (as expected) you might as well keep dumping (Price/Weber) and just totally blow it all up...

Yup but like NJ and Col showed...it doesn't take long to come back if you reload with youth and speed. I love Gally but if I could get a forward asset who could put up his numbers in Yamamoto and a 2nd line center prospect...bye-bye. Nobody is untouchable on a bottom team unless their is a business/marketing reason (e.g., Drouin).
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#16
(2018-05-16, 10:06 AM)Cal Wrote: What's with all the love for RNH? His best seasons production-wise was back in 13/14 and 14/15 with pretty much identical seasons of 56 points. He played 55 games 2 seasons ago and 62 this season.
If the Habs have to give up Gallagher, why the bleep would you be going for this guy?
Gallagher +++ for a Draisatl type? For sure. But, for RNH? No, no, 1000 times no.

I agree. Whats the point of trading one 50 something point guy for another 50 something point guy? We haven't had a 70 point player since Plekanec and the solution to that problem is not trading for another 50 point player. We're looking at making what would be at best a sideways deal involving one of our best players. If we can't get ourselves a star (70+ point) player now we should be looking to add to our chances to get one later.
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#17
(2018-05-16, 10:37 AM)mada7 Wrote:
(2018-05-16, 10:06 AM)Cal Wrote: What's with all the love for RNH? His best seasons production-wise was back in 13/14 and 14/15 with pretty much identical seasons of 56 points. He played 55 games 2 seasons ago and 62 this season.
If the Habs have to give up Gallagher, why the bleep would you be going for this guy?
Gallagher +++ for a Draisatl type? For sure. But, for RNH? No, no, 1000 times no.

I agree. Whats the point of trading one 50 something point guy for another 50 something point guy? We haven't had a 70 point player since Plekanec and the solution to that problem is not trading for another 50 point player. We're looking at making what would be at best a sideways deal involving one of our best players. If we can't get ourselves a star (70+ point) player now we should be looking to add to our chances to get one later.

You do it because you have no centers and an excess of wingers. Plus RNH is still signed for another 3 seasons. It is a no-brainer trade for the Habs.

Personally I don't believe the Oilers would do it unless they really need cap savings. RNH is now on the wing with McDavid and is producing. It makes no sense for them to switch one forward for another unless they are trying to save money.
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#18
Krob
Geoff is less transparent about this than I am, but he wants Watchoretty gone every
bit as much, so how about tweaking this to include him instead of Byron.  

Also, since we're about to deal with Chiarelli (he of Tyler & Taylor fame), let's push
past the bridesmaid (RNH) and get Draisaitl.  After all, we are parting with our 
(ahem) Captain, so tweak away.  I'm meeting Geoff at 3:00 today and will 
pitch your deal then, but let's get it right the first time so that he can 
turn it over to Bergevin for fleecing follow up with (LOL) Chiarelli.

Nice work !
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#19
(2018-05-16, 09:22 AM)krob1000 Wrote:
(2018-05-16, 09:13 AM)DDO_Habs_Fan Wrote: First of all...just forget about anyone taking Alzner unless it is a dump type deal.

Also I don't think Gally is enough to get RNH.

Based on what I read about the Oilers, they are looking to ADD to their line-up first hence the 10th pick being in play. Obvioulsy they will subtract if need be for cap reasons.

Number one thing they want is a top-4 RH Dman. Next is another top-6 forward without losing one.

Like I told Scriptor, if you want a former number 1 pick overall center then you have to pay. It starts with IMO the 3rd overall or  Weber.
Gally IMO is enough to get RNH...singed longer and 2.25 million cheaper, produces more goals and does something that nobody else in the entire NHL does as well.....in fact I think Habs get the premiuim on that deal due the to the cap savings/term diff.  Gallagher is also from there.

Gally for RNH... I can listen to ppl convince me it would be a fair trade

But the problem with original post....is that the rest of the deal makes ZERO sense for the Oliers.

Lets' see ...one of their top D, the 10th overall pick....and we give them a huge bad salary guy, a kid drafted in late rounds who still needs to develop, and a 3rd round pick who's odds of making the NHL is like 10% and ok one decent pc in Bryon. Oh ya, HAbs do that....Oiler....NOPE

BTW, we need to keep Gally especially if we lose Patches
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#20
(2018-05-16, 09:51 AM)Scriptor Wrote: I think that the responses will be hilarious. Last offseason, while people didn't like the idea of losing Gallagher on our end, they thought that he wouldn't be worth enough to land Nugent-Hopkins as part of a package and EDM fans laughed it off, if I recall correctly. Now, it's a whole different story. I predict MON fans will start bonfires in the streets if Gallagher is traded and EDM fans, as always, expect the next Gretzky at league minimum for the precious services of Nugent-Hopkins who hasn't yet lived up to his draft ranking (like a few others haven't on that team). Not to mention that he earns a lot of money for his role on the team up to the time where he was played out of position on the McDavid line (at season's end) for lack of anything better. With the other useless husks eating up Cap space, both up front and on D, something has to give over there if they want to really take the next step.

Chiarelli has made a mess of things in EDM, IMHO, and the fans there deserve better, as the fans in MON also do, but their expectations aren't realistic at all given the mess that they are in. There certainly is a lack of projection on the part of Edmonton fans to see the potential of skilled wingers, underperforming elsewhere without a real C, given the chance of playing with either of McDavid or Draisaitl.

The same way that players traditionally score less points once they come to the Habs, all the way back to the 80s, I expect that offensive players not dragged down by a lack of speed and finesse would see a spike in production once on the top two lines in EDM. That is how Chiarelli will make a good trade, by banking on the right player to be propelled even higher once in EDM, not by looking for the next Kurri-performing play to come their way in a trade for one of their overpriced knuckle draggers (direct jab at Lucic). A Kurri-esque producing player would already cost too much for their Cap situation.

As for analyzing your deal. IMO, Gallagher VS RNH, straight up is at least a match, but for a team like EDM that has a ton of skill but lacks the oomph to get over the hump, his value is greater than RNH straight up. In the past, it was those intangibles -- his ability to jump start any line and all manners of players, regardless of skill level and his leadership qualities -- that made the swap fair.

Now, with 31 goals proving that Gallagher can become a Marchand-like producer as well, his worth just skyrocketed. Don't ask the fans. Ask ANY NHL GM! He's a management type's wet dream; always 200%, goal production, antagonistic, leadership, brilliant 3.75M Cap hit, two-way winger, etc., etc...

Even if you consider Gallagher-RNH a wash (which I don't, anymore), it leaves #66 pick, Byron and Mete for Klefbom. Say what you want, but that might be more than a fair deal for EDM, considering all the Cap relief that they also get as a bonus. Does it hurt MON, as you suggested? It certainly does because you lose two of the team's locomotives in Gallagher and Byron and a cost-controlled, lightning fast, puck-moving LHD in Mete that can play for the next 17 years, maybe more.

Not sure I would do that trade myself. RNH is too soft to lose a player like Gallagher, IMO. I'd rather get O'Reilly than RNH if I had to give up Gallagher so as not to lose too much grit in the process. That said, I'm not against trading Gallagher if the return is good. Not fair -- Good! It's the intangibles associated with Gallagher that make for that need. I don't see those intangibles in Nugent-Hopkins, personally. I see them in Draisaitl (from his play in the playoffs two years ago where he raised his level of play), but not in Nugent-Hopkins.

I may have omitted to see the #10 coming our way as well. I don't know. I'm thinking that MON staying away from any kind of trade with EDM would be best Wink

Very good points Script. 

All teams have fans who overrate their players. Oilers fans definitely and Habs fans usually, which is why some of the chatter around a Gallagher trade I find strange. He is actually one of the only players we have who we can overrate, if thats possible, and who can be a guy to build with. Lets look at it this way, Gallagher produced not because of any one or two line mates he was placed with, he produced despite them. He doesnt need anyone to lift him up to play better or work harder, he is the one that makes his line mates better, he is the engine. We are a team with barely any engines and when you want a team to succeed you need many engines. 

At the same time we are letting our desperation for a centre to perhapss cloud our judgement a bit when it comes to RNH. I mean he is a good player, but he is a highly paid inconsistent second line centre who hasn't produced exceptional numbers on a far more offensively gifted team than he would be coming to with us. Sure perhaps playing more minutes and out remaining at centre instead of wing could help, but we would be giving up an enormous part of our team to risk seeing RNH develop to that next level. And, I am sad to say, Montreal likely isnt the best organization for a player like RNH to reach his potential. 

I honestly don't think this is such a great trade for us either. I mean, its not like its a horrible trade idea, there certainly is merit to it, but in this instance I think we would be losing too much
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