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US Recognizes Jerusalem as Israeli Capital
Btw if anyone cares.. at least one person died today and 300 injured in protests.

Will be curious to see if things intensify or settle over the weekend
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(2017-12-08, 07:17 PM)RyeRocks Wrote: Btw if anyone cares.. at least one person died today and 300 injured in protests.

Will be curious to see if things intensify or settle over the weekend

  You talking about a quiet day in East LA? 
Phill 2:10-11 
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No
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Whether it was right to create the new country of Israel is neither here nor there NOW.

IT EXISTS! And it is probably the most precarious Nation State in the world, surrounded by enemies with a lot of "potential enemies" within their borders.

Their very existence depends on them being on their guard at ALL TIMES and maybe just a little more ruthless than some can stomach.
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 So who is Ben Jacobs?

 Next question:

What is so wrong with moving the US Embassy to Jerusalem?
Phill 2:10-11 
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(2017-12-08, 07:26 PM)zapzac Wrote: Whether it was right to create the new country of Israel is neither here nor there NOW.

IT EXISTS!  And it is probably the most precarious Nation State in the world, surrounded by enemies with a lot of "potential enemies" within their borders.

Their very existence depends on them being on their guard at ALL TIMES and maybe just a little more ruthless than some can stomach.

So then that begs the question - Maybe Israel is in the wrong place?

If we agree that the Jewish people, the most persecuted in history, need a safe place to build a homeland, it seems rather foolish to plop that in amongst their enemies.

It seems a facetious question, but this was a matter of debate for a good long while. It's not like the results of the creation of Israel as a Jewish homeland weren't 100% predictable from the start.
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(2017-12-08, 09:00 PM)Highstyx Wrote:  So who is Ben Jacobs?

 Next question:

What is so wrong with moving the US Embassy to Jerusalem?
Reporter for The Guardian.  He reported what was said at the rally.

Here's an interesting take from a not-exactly-left-leaning-publication.

https://www.economist.com/news/leaders/2...ty-not-one
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(2017-12-08, 07:06 PM)TheOilerFan83 Wrote:
(2017-12-08, 06:12 PM)topgun Wrote:
(2017-12-08, 05:25 PM)TheOilerFan83 Wrote:
(2017-12-08, 04:12 PM)topgun Wrote:
(2017-12-08, 04:02 PM)TheOilerFan83 Wrote: The definition ‘open air prison’ is quite misleading. 

It’s a border. You can enter and exit quite easily. The wall is really only predominant around Tel Aviv-Haifa/Jerusalem. 

Once you are beyond the major population centre, there is no wall. There is no ‘prison’.

And it wasn’t rocks that lead to the wall. It was suicide bombers.

How can you have 100% control over the entire territory and still call it a border?  The people are walled in, economically depressed, denied the basic aid from international agencies at the whim of the controlling government. There is no escape or options for these people. It's an open air prison.

The prison that's run by the very same people that don't live up to the agreements that they signed and violated over and over again. What would a lawyer say or do if they they found that one party to have violated their own written words repeatedly and to tear up the contract unilaterally?

What part of provoking, reaction from the Palestinians, taking more land, provoking them even more and violating their own signed accords by the Israelis do you NOT get?

This entire territory that Israel has 100% control over, can you define it? What is the territory that is surrounded and completely enclosed? Does it fully encapsulate the West Bank? Is it restricted only to lands designated Area A?

I see that you ignored the question that I asked and you're ok with one party tearing tearing up what has been LEGALLY signed without duress and they did it unilaterally. 

http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/12...air-prison

I'm not ignoring the question at all. If you are going to make an assertion that Israel has '100% control' over an 'entire territory', how is it ignoring the issue to ask what the territory is? You keep talking about the Palestinians being imprisoned, and I cannot discuss the issue with you if you refuse to define the area or identify with certainty what it is that you are protesting.

So what are you discussing? 
Are you discussing the encirclement of the Gaza Strip by the Israelis and the Egyptians? 
Are you discussing the wall built by Israel separating areas of the West Bank and Israel? 
Are you discussing about alleged land grabs in the West Bank?
Are you discussing 100% territorial control by Israel in lands that are classified as Area A, B, or C? Just one of those designations? All three? Two of the three?

What areas are you discussing?

Again, deny and deflect without answering with your post. I even posted the link. Hopefully reading is a requirement for law school in Australia. 

I was born there. My older brother was born in Canada and as are my younger 2 siblings. I sure hope that the land of my birth (Yes, I'm a dual citizen) educates their citizens a bit better. You should ask for a refund. Like I said before I'm not muslim, nor is anyone in my family married to one and in no way would I be against it if one was.

Answer my questions instead of deflecting. Avoidance on your part is telling.
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Israel would collapse within a day if BIG Brother America wasn't there to back them up. Only a fool would think otherwise.

That's why the Jews in America fund political campaigns of both parties.

America gives IMMENSE financial aid to Israel, Israel then gives low or no interest loans to Americans of the Jewish faith, who then fund the campaigns of the American politicians. The cycle continues. Israel is basically pimping the USA for their own needs
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Zap's point above is valid, and does a lot to offer perspective on Israel's actions and behaviours. What it does not do is explain how external forces can enable such behaviours. Israel exists in a state of paranoia, so if a country like the US wants to get involved, it best not stoke the flames of that paranoia.
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(2017-12-08, 10:31 PM)topgun Wrote:
(2017-12-08, 07:06 PM)TheOilerFan83 Wrote:
(2017-12-08, 06:12 PM)topgun Wrote:
(2017-12-08, 05:25 PM)TheOilerFan83 Wrote:
(2017-12-08, 04:12 PM)topgun Wrote: How can you have 100% control over the entire territory and still call it a border?  The people are walled in, economically depressed, denied the basic aid from international agencies at the whim of the controlling government. There is no escape or options for these people. It's an open air prison.

The prison that's run by the very same people that don't live up to the agreements that they signed and violated over and over again. What would a lawyer say or do if they they found that one party to have violated their own written words repeatedly and to tear up the contract unilaterally?

What part of provoking, reaction from the Palestinians, taking more land, provoking them even more and violating their own signed accords by the Israelis do you NOT get?

This entire territory that Israel has 100% control over, can you define it? What is the territory that is surrounded and completely enclosed? Does it fully encapsulate the West Bank? Is it restricted only to lands designated Area A?

I see that you ignored the question that I asked and you're ok with one party tearing tearing up what has been LEGALLY signed without duress and they did it unilaterally. 

http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/12...air-prison

I'm not ignoring the question at all. If you are going to make an assertion that Israel has '100% control' over an 'entire territory', how is it ignoring the issue to ask what the territory is? You keep talking about the Palestinians being imprisoned, and I cannot discuss the issue with you if you refuse to define the area or identify with certainty what it is that you are protesting.

So what are you discussing? 
Are you discussing the encirclement of the Gaza Strip by the Israelis and the Egyptians? 
Are you discussing the wall built by Israel separating areas of the West Bank and Israel? 
Are you discussing about alleged land grabs in the West Bank?
Are you discussing 100% territorial control by Israel in lands that are classified as Area A, B, or C? Just one of those designations? All three? Two of the three?

What areas are you discussing?

Again, deny and deflect without answering with your post. I even posted the link. Hopefully reading is a requirement for law school in Australia. 

I was born there. My older brother was born in Canada and as are my younger 2 siblings. I sure hope that the land of my birth (Yes, I'm a dual citizen) educates their citizens a bit better. You should ask for a refund. Like I said before I'm not muslim, nor is anyone in my family married to one and in no way would I be against it if one was.

Answer my questions instead of deflecting. Avoidance on your part is telling.

As you would know because you were born there, each designated area is governed by different rules and authorities. When you mention areas generally, I am unable to give you an answer as there is no context to what it is you are talking about.

This is not avoiding. It is refusing to answer a (likely loaded) question until you tell me what specific area you are talking about. There is a difference between avoiding your question and refusing to answer a question that lacks sufficient detail and forethought. 

In summary, instead of passively aggressively taking a shot at my education, try providing actual insight to your issue so I can respond in kind. I am not some uninformed lacky who is easily tricked by a map that was downloaded from truthers.org. I would consider myself to have above average knowledge on the area and the ME in general, and someone who is interested in advancing my understanding.

If you want to have a legitimate discussion, answer my question about what area of Israel you are talking about so I can provide you with a thought out and relevant answer. It may not be an answer you agree with but it will be a genuine answer nonetheless. If, however, you just wish to gripe generally without actually having a discussion, then continue down the path you are on.
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(2017-12-07, 12:30 AM)Ryu65 Wrote:
(2017-12-06, 09:23 PM)CTS Wrote: Jerusaleum IS the capital city of Israel.    What's the problem?    Of course it's gonna upset some people, but too bad.    Stop worrying about hurting everyone's feelings & go on about your business.  Stop placating to extremists who may or may not carry out terror attacks.    They happen in the West bank all the time anyways

So basically what you're saying is :


-Steal from anyone as long as they don't know, and if they do, who cares if they get upset they're just being sensitive.

- Kill anyone who gets in your way, if it upsets their family, again too bad.

-Rape any woman you find attractive because it feels good, too bad if she doesn't like it or cries. Snowflake.


Do you even understand how international law works? Do you even have any knowledge on the Israel-Palestine situation and that Jerusalem in the 50's was agreed upon by the UN to be an international city that belongs to both Israel and Palestine and NOT both.

Here's a picture of what Israel-Palestine was supposed to look like back in 1947-present:

[Image: israel-palestine_map.jpg]

IF it were the reverse and Israel was losing its land, would you be okay with it and make that very same comment?

RYU,

I get your point, but best not to use those maps. They are actually not at all a clear picture of the reality and used as propaganda means. Much like many Pro-Palestinian groups use certain posters from the early 20th century with the words Palestine depicted on it to prove that a state of Palestine was actually in existence or that there was at least a push for it to exist, but in fact were items from Zionist organizations. 

There is so much information out there and mis-information that its tough to know what is true and what is false.
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This is a very sticky situation. From my understanding it can be seen as a religious vs political battle, and both religion and politics are both bad starting points, IMO.
Jerusalem is the capital of Judaism. I dont think any other religion on the planet holds Jerusalem to the standard that Judaism does and in fact I am not even sure if Judaism survives as a religion without Jerusalem, that is how important the city is to the Jews. They have their biblical, historical, archeological and spiritual base connected to that one sole city. When Jews pray they always face Jerusalem. On top of believing that it is God who has given the right to Jews to the city, however crazy that might seem. In any case there is not a moment within Jewish history of the past 3000 years, as to my understanding, where Jerusalem is not the centre of Jewish life, whether it be in the actual city itself or the diaspora. I believe the city is mentioned like a thousand times in the Jewish bible. So obviously that extremely strong connection is there and since it hasn't broke in 3000 years, I doubt it will break any time soon

On the other hand, for the Muslims, Jerusalem is more political than anything. Again from my understanding, Jerusalem is considered a holy place because while it is not mentioned by name in the Quran (I know there is a very debatable reference one time somewhere in a passage, but from what I have read the time line of Muhammed making his voyage to Jerusalem would have not made sense), there is a connection. Jerusalem had been under Muslim control for many centuries and never was it turned into a capital or held great significance within the Muslim world on a consistent basis. Its history was more based on a conquering element than a religious one. Yes the Al-Aqsa mosque was built there (which begs the question, had the Jews built a temple over the most sacred holy site in Islam, what the reaction would be instead of the other way around....), but the importance of the city seems to be more political and it became point of contention really only after 1967 on political grounds more than religious, even though religion is used to flan the flames.

In any case, Jews only have one religious and cultural centre and thats Jerusalem and no matter what happens I can't see that ever changing. The Palestinians seem to have a religious connection, but its more about the land and political aspect of someone else having what should be ours. Either way, religion and political are bad enough on their own, put them together and its terrible.
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(2017-12-13, 06:11 PM)poppabyrd Wrote:


LOL!

I am sure there must have been plenty of pork products in the basket as well.
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