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What's needed now
#1
I know many or most would say we need to improve the d and improving anything is always a plus but is it a pressing need. I'd say we have lots of skill throughout the lineup but we are sorely missing grit, muscle, call it what you may.

Another Martin, no, we need players that can actually play and contribute like Washington's Wilson or even better Oshie. Both would be ideal but finding grinders with talent should be a priority.

Our grinders, now, well there's one, Hymen, a big player who is willing to use his size which he has. We have one other grinder in the system, Grundstrom who's been described as another Leo with more talent. 

Hyman and Grundstrom are an excellent beginning if Grundstrom makes it to the NHL then I'd think TO would only need a Wilson type, someone who can play all over the lineup without being a liability. Wilson takes far too many penalties so looking for his clone isn't ideal, I'd say. I might be selling Kadri short a bit here but his intensity wanes.

It bothers me that Marner is one of TO's grinders, a role he isn't cut out for on many different levels.
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#2
Why is Marner a Grinder?
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#3
I got pulled away but I also think TO needs a better Polak, right now the only true physical d-man TO has is Carrick and considering how well Babs loves him I doubt he's going to get enough icetime to be of any impact.

Marner isn't a true grinder but rather than avoid choppy waters like Nylander he will try to preserve, meet it head on. In the playoffs I felt Marner and Hymen were TO's only top six forwards that were willing to take a beating to keep on ticking. Chara had Mariner's number, Chara seemed to be on a mission to stop Mariner yet Mariner was TO's top performer, that's a grinder.
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#4
(2018-08-10, 09:12 PM)hobster Wrote: I know many or most would say we need to improve the d and improving anything is always a plus but is it a pressing need. I'd say we have lots of skill throughout the lineup but we are sorely missing grit, muscle, call it what you may.

Another Martin, no, we need players that can actually play and contribute like Washington's Wilson or even better Oshie. Both would be ideal but finding grinders with talent should be a priority.

Our grinders, now, well there's one, Hymen, a big player who is willing to use his size which he has. We have one other grinder in the system, Grundstrom who's been described as another Leo with more talent. 

Hyman and Grundstrom are an excellent beginning if Grundstrom makes it to the NHL then I'd think TO would only need a Wilson type, someone who can play all over the lineup without being a liability. Wilson takes far too many penalties so looking for his clone isn't ideal, I'd say. I might be selling Kadri short a bit here but his intensity wanes.

It bothers me that Marner is one of TO's grinders, a role he isn't cut out for on many different levels.
I thinking in Kevin Bieksa on a tryout or cheap 1 year dead is smart. He adds toughness and leadership. He should bounce back this year that wasn't as good as he can play
I want to see him superman punch some too lol

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#5
I think at best Bieksa is a lateral to Polak and wouldn't be any kind of improvement on Polak.

I like that TO let Leo go to hopefully allow room for Grundstrom who might be an upgrade and I'd hope TO let Polak go because it's looking for an upgrade.
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#6
Statistically, Bieska was probably the worst D in the league last year, and the year before that.. from a fancy stats perspective. He was barely better three years ago. I don't see him being a Dubas player in the least.

We can find some physical D men... but they are mostly slow, and not very good at the D. This team will be more about moving the puck. If we can develop a more physical D, we will, or if one becomes available, that can actually play D. Lily can be somewhat physical, finishes his checks well, though he isn't punishing. Maybe one of the big D men turns into something... or not... who knows. Perhaps in three years, Rasanen becomes useful and comes back.
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#7
I've never been fond of TO drafting extremely large players as I expect that normally they are slower off the mark and their only advantage is reach. In the right player size is an advantage but those players are rare. I'd prefer TO look for size of the heart rather than size only.

Watching TO lose to Boston in the playoffs made me think that Boston played a physical game and I don't think Boston is that much bigger than TO just more inclined to be physical. Boston's game took a toll on TO probably more mental than anything else so TO needs more grinders, not necessarily bigger players.
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#8
(2018-08-11, 12:51 AM)hobster Wrote: I've never been fond of TO drafting extremely large players as I expect that normally they are slower off the mark and their only advantage is reach. In the right player size is an advantage but those players are rare. I'd prefer TO look for size of the heart rather than size only.

Watching TO lose to Boston in the playoffs made me think that Boston played a physical game and I don't think Boston is that much bigger than TO just more inclined to be physical. Boston's game took a toll on TO probably more mental than anything else so TO needs more grinders, not necessarily bigger players.

I dont think the Leafs are going to beat Boston at a physical game no matter who they sign. 

They lost because Boston played their game better and shutdown our best players. 

For TO to play those teams like Boston they need to be smarter with the puck, play a speed game that the other team cant keep up with and still finish their checks. Its not even about laying big checks its just the thought of contact that makes other teams make mistakes. 

That all said would love to see Grundstrom get a spot.
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#9
(2018-08-10, 09:38 PM)WTTM Wrote: Why is Marner a Grinder?

Agreed, I think he will be the playmaker on the line with Tavares who is a great shooting Centre. Marleau could round out the line to dig pucks out but I could also see Brown or Johnsson playing with them.
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#10
(2018-08-10, 09:38 PM)WTTM Wrote: Why is Marner a Grinder?

Laugh Laugh   Indeed
"Stand up for yourself young fellow. Nobody else is going to do it for you" 
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#11
This entire thread is garbage!
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#12
(2018-08-10, 09:12 PM)hobster Wrote: I know many or most would say we need to improve the d and improving anything is always a plus but is it a pressing need. I'd say we have lots of skill throughout the lineup but we are sorely missing grit, muscle, call it what you may.

Another Martin, no, we need players that can actually play and contribute like Washington's Wilson or even better Oshie. Both would be ideal but finding grinders with talent should be a priority.

Our grinders, now, well there's one, Hymen, a big player who is willing to use his size which he has. We have one other grinder in the system, Grundstrom who's been described as another Leo with more talent. 

Hyman and Grundstrom are an excellent beginning if Grundstrom makes it to the NHL then I'd think TO would only need a Wilson type, someone who can play all over the lineup without being a liability. Wilson takes far too many penalties so looking for his clone isn't ideal, I'd say. I might be selling Kadri short a bit here but his intensity wanes.

It bothers me that Marner is one of TO's grinders, a role he isn't cut out for on many different levels.

Is there a source for this statement or your personal opinion? Or has some joker of a TO sports reporter lost his/her mind again! Marner is no more a grinder tan I am at 71!! Just wondering
"Congratulations you are at the right place at the right time"
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#13
The last guy I want to see in a Leaf uni this year is Bieska. What total waste of Cap space it would be. I would rather the Leafs re-sign Gardiner for 2 more years!!
"Congratulations you are at the right place at the right time"
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#14
(2018-08-11, 05:26 PM)CaperLeaf Wrote:
(2018-08-10, 09:12 PM)hobster Wrote: I know many or most would say we need to improve the d and improving anything is always a plus but is it a pressing need. I'd say we have lots of skill throughout the lineup but we are sorely missing grit, muscle, call it what you may.

Another Martin, no, we need players that can actually play and contribute like Washington's Wilson or even better Oshie. Both would be ideal but finding grinders with talent should be a priority.

Our grinders, now, well there's one, Hymen, a big player who is willing to use his size which he has. We have one other grinder in the system, Grundstrom who's been described as another Leo with more talent. 

Hyman and Grundstrom are an excellent beginning if Grundstrom makes it to the NHL then I'd think TO would only need a Wilson type, someone who can play all over the lineup without being a liability. Wilson takes far too many penalties so looking for his clone isn't ideal, I'd say. I might be selling Kadri short a bit here but his intensity wanes.

It bothers me that Marner is one of TO's grinders, a role he isn't cut out for on many different levels.

Is there a source for this statement or your personal opinion? Or has some joker of a TO sports reporter lost his/her mind again! Marner is no more a grinder tan I am at 71!! Just wondering

Maybe you need to define grinder, for me a grinder is someone that will persevere when confronting incredible adversity like Chara obviously targeting Marner during the playoffs. He fought for every point, every opportunity and didn't back down, for me that's a grinder. Non grinders were Matthews and Nylander during those playoffs.

Kadri came to Marner's rescue but it cost him 3 games in the playoffs so having more grinders might have meant less energy would have been spent on targeting Marner.

Grinder for me doesn't mean talent less, it means someone who gives his all. I keep hearing from fans and media that Matthews is an automatic Captain candidate but I feel Marner has way more character and is the player, on the ice, worthy of being the leader.
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#15
A grinder is often a player who has limited offensive skills, but is valuable to a hockey team due to physical forechecking skills especially along the boards; for "grinding along the boards"

Marner is too good, offensively, to be classified a grinder. Just my opinion. You have yours thats god as well.
"Congratulations you are at the right place at the right time"
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#16
I get what Hobster is trying to say..in that Marner was a GRINDER..he meant that mitchie goes into the corners and fights for the puck..he is also one of the most talented players we have..we do need more guys Like HymAn and Brownie and Marner...now i do not think he meant that Marners skillset was that of a grinder..have a good day all.that was my 2 cents worth..pool is calling my name and screaming kids need to be dunked
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#17
(2018-08-12, 01:56 PM)SNLeafaholic Wrote: I get what Hobster is trying to say..in that Marner was a GRINDER..he meant that mitchie goes into the corners and fights for the puck..he is also one of the most talented players we have..we do need more guys Like HymAn and Brownie and Marner...now i do not think he meant that Marners skillset was that of a grinder..have a good day all.that was my 2 cents worth..pool is calling my name and screaming kids need to be dunked

I see where you both are on this but but if we had more "grinders" there would be no need for Marner to have to venture into the trenches like the corners. Leave that for others and Marner to be the elite player he will become.
"Congratulations you are at the right place at the right time"
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#18
Other players I would define as grinders: Crosby, Kesler, Giroux, Toews and from the past Messier, talented players who didn't/don't just rely on their talent but bring their all every game.

We've seen a 165 pound Marner come out of the corners with the puck against far bigger players or Mitch throwing himself in the lane of shots, that's a grinder. That's what makes him elite, talent and drive.
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#19
(2018-08-12, 06:48 PM)hobster Wrote: Other players I would define as grinders: Crosby, Kesler, Giroux, Toews and from the past Messier, talented players who didn't/don't just rely on their talent but bring their all every game.

We've seen a 165 pound Marner come out of the corners with the puck against far bigger players or Mitch throwing himself in the lane of shots, that's a grinder. That's what makes him elite, talent and drive.

you have to understand he is not like most players..i saw video of him as a 4 and 5 year old out there stealing the puck from everyone and chasing anybody down who had it...and he would take it..its in his DNA and he is our elite player and hopefully for 10+ years
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#20
(2018-08-12, 12:40 PM)CaperLeaf Wrote: A grinder is often a player who has limited offensive skills, but is valuable to a hockey team due to physical forechecking skills especially along the boards; for "grinding along the boards"

Marner is too good, offensively, to be classified a grinder. Just my opinion. You have yours thats god as well.
I'd classify Marner as Gritty, not a grinder

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