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Will Ovie hit 60?
#21
(2018-12-12, 02:17 PM)Bo Dangles Wrote: Bo: Gretzky was the GOAT but his stats are inflated due to the era in which he played.
Viable: Oh, YEAH?! Check out these Gretzky stats!
(I already said they are incredible, just inflated due to his era...re-posting stats I am referring to does what, exactly?)

Bo: Ovechkin is the greatest pure goal scorer.
Viable: I don't care how many goals he scores, he sucks at backchecking, and is a lousy hockey player.
(Again, you're apparently acknowledging my position that he's a great goal scorer while offering rebuttals to points I never made)

Your replies make absolutely no sense, but if you want to continue arguing with yourself, countering points that you make up on my behalf, have at 'er, I guess.

Whatever, Bo. Just look at his stats!
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#22
Thanks, TOF83. Happy

Just looked at Gretzky's stats guys.

Did you know he scored 50 in 39? Jesus.

I really wish I had bothered to look into this Gretzky fella before piping up about it.
Makes OV look like a pile of puke.
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#23
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#24
You're close, Bo. The only thing is, I do not believe Ovechkin to be great at anything, unless you include hyperbole. He's a complete goofball and a 1 trick pony.
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#25
(2018-12-12, 03:07 PM)Viable Wrote: You're close, Bo. The only thing is, I do not believe Ovechkin to be great at anything, unless you include hyperbole. He's a complete goofball and a 1 trick pony.

If he is a one trick pony, wouldn't that make him great at something?
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#26
I like seeing records being broken and am a hugr Ovie fan, definitely hope he scored 60 and beats Gretzky's goal scoring record
If you need a sign to stay alive tonight, this is it!
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#27
(2018-12-12, 03:07 PM)Viable Wrote: You're close, Bo. The only thing is, I do not believe Ovechkin to be great at anything, unless you include hyperbole. He's a complete goofball and a 1 trick pony.

What the hell does this even mean? 
OV is great at hyperbole? 

Even if you disagree (as I am sure many do) that he is the greatest goal scorer of all time, he IS great at it.
Denying that is denying reality. It's like denying that Usain Bolt is a fast sprinter. 
 
Nobody wins the Rocket Richard trophy 7 (on track for 8) times if they aren't a great goal scorer.
How do I know this? Because...it's literally the award the NHL gives to a guy for being great at scoring goals.

If his "one trick", as a player whose role is to score goals, is routinely leading the league in the exact thing that he's expected to do, that's a pretty great trick.
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#28
(2018-12-12, 11:52 AM)Viable Wrote: You don't know your arse from a hole in the ground Bo. 
The year Gretzky scored 92 goals he scored his 50th in his 39th game of the 80 game season. One season he scored 215 points, including 52 goals.

Here: you need to look at this:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ca...ne_Gretzky

Do yourself a favour and stop with the "my generation had all the best players" crap.

I know I really shouldn't get into it with you because judging by your predictable responses to Bo, I don't see this going anywhere but here goes nothing:

First let me declare that I too think Gretzky is the best player of all time, because you really can't fight the stats, but nobody here is going to deny that nor is my intention to prove Ovechkin was "better" than Gretzky, but this has turned into an argument (as it always does) over which era was "easier" to score in.

-The year Gretzky scored his career high 92 goals, 1981-82, there were 10 players who scored 50 or more. That same year, Bossy had 64 goals and 3rd place had 60 goals.
- That same year 22 players total scored 40+ goals.

In comparison:

- The year Ovechkin scored his career high 65 goals, 2007-2008, only 2 other players scored 50 or more. Kovalchuk had 52, and Iginla had 50.
-There were only 10 players total that year who had 40+ goals.

-The year Gretzky scored 87 goals in 82-83, there were 8 other 50+ goal scorers and 24 players who scored 40+ that year.
- In 1979-1980, the year Gretzky scored his lowest 50+ goal season (51) in his career, he was 6th that year along with 9 other 50 goal scorers.


In comparison, Ovechkin's lowest 50+ goal season, he scored exactly 50 twice in his career (09-10 and 15-16). In 09-10, he finished 3rd behind Stamkos and Crosby who tied for 51 that year (only 3 50 goal scorers) and in 15-16 he was the lone 50 goal scorer. Both those seasons combined had only 11 players who scored 40+ goals, I repeat, two combined seasons saw only eleven 40+ goal scorers.

Basically I'll break it down like this, Gretzky's 9 seasons of 50+ goals and then how many players that year scored 50+ and 40+:

79-80: 9 with 50+, 24 with 40+
80-81: 8 with 50+, 19 with 40+
81-82: 10 with 50+, 22 with 40+
82-83: 7 with 50+, 23 with 40+
83-84: 8 with 50+, 24 with 40+
84-85: 9 with 50+, 23 with 40+
85-86: 6 with 50+, 23 with 40+
86-87: 5 with 50+, 17 with 40+
88-89: 6 with 50+, 22 with 40+

(by the way the 40+ includes the 50+ as well)

In Comparison, Ovechkin so far has had 7 seasons of 50+ goals, and here are the same stats:

05-06: 5 with 50+, 11 with 40+
07-08: 3 with 50+, 10 with 40+
08-09: 1 with 50+, 8 with 40+
09-10: 3 with 50+, 7 with 40+
13-14: 1 with 50+, 3 with 40+
14-15: 1 with 50+, 3 with 40+
15-16: 1 with 50+, 4 with 40+

(again I included the 50+ scorers with the 40+ numbers)

Just by looking at that alone, you can see the difference in goal scoring through both era's. Gretzky scored 50+ 9 times but only led the league in goals 5 out of those 9 times, believe it or not the other 4 seasons he scored 50+ he wasn't even the best goal scorer that year.

Ovechkin won the Rocket 5 out of the 7 times he scored 50+ and was only beat out by 1 goal in 09-10 and 4 goals in 05-06. In the four seasons that Gretzky scored 50+ and didn't lead the league in goals, the winners had:

79-80: 56 goals (Gretz 52)
80-81: 68 goals (Gretz 55)
85-86: 68 goals (Gretz 52)
88-89: 85 goals (Gretz 54)

In addition to that, Ovechkin plays in an era where you don't even need to score 50 goals to lead the league in goals and win the Richard trophy as evidenced by his wins in 2013 and 2018.

Again, not to say Gretzky isn't arguably the greatest goal scorer of all time, but there were plenty of seasons where he simply wasn't the best goal scorer in the league during that year. This is also ignoring the fact that Gretzky's goal scoring started dwindling into his 30's whereas apparently Ovechkin has hit his 30's and still scoring.

Keep in mind, I'm only comparing two players from each era with these stats. This doesn't even take into consideration all the other seasons with low goal scoring leaders and stats comparing the number of 50 or 60 goal scorers in the 80's and in the 2000's.
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#29
Viable, in case you're wondering what that 'thud' sound was, it was Ryu dropping the mic.
"Oh mischief, glorious mischief...I do so love it!"
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#30
All years combined that Ovie had 50+ goales there were 46 players COMBINED that had 40+ goals (7 seasons)

In Gretzky's first two seasons there were 43 players COMBINED that scored 40+ goals (2 seasons)
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#31
(2018-12-12, 03:10 PM)TheOilerFan83 Wrote:
(2018-12-12, 03:07 PM)Viable Wrote: You're close, Bo. The only thing is, I do not believe Ovechkin to be great at anything, unless you include hyperbole. He's a complete goofball and a 1 trick pony.

If he is a one trick pony, wouldn't that make him great at something?

OK fine. But that thing that he’s “great” at is scoring goals. Not really relevant in today’s NHL.
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#32
So Ovie needs 35 goals in 52 games to hit 60...

That's about a 56 goal/season pace he needs to maintain until year end.

It'll be close.

If he stays healthy, and Backstrom/Kuznetsov/Carlson too, as they do all the passing to Ovie, I say he gets there.

You know if he's close near the end, he'll be bombing away to try and hit it.

Should be fun to watch.
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#33
I hope he does pretends to warm his hands oveer his stick to celebrate if he hits 60. Or Another wacky celebration lol
If you need a sign to stay alive tonight, this is it!
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#34
You guys are nuts. OV will never get any credit for anything from me. Save your energy for an argument you might be able to win. Wink

Just ask yourself how it is that he is wide open all the time when everyone knows where he is or is going to be?? How can an 'NHL' level goalie miss a shot from where he is taking it? If today's goalies would stay on their feet more and come out to cut down the angle (like they used to), it wouldn't matter how hard he shot it. If a goal goes in from where OV is, it's a miss on the goaltender, not good shooting. 

How many of OV's goals came from a power play? How many of Gretzky's? How many short handed goals for OV? How many for Wayne?

OV is the clown prince of hockey.
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#35
(2018-12-13, 06:39 AM)Viable Wrote: You guys are nuts. OV will never get any credit for anything from me. Save your energy for an argument you might be able to win. Wink

At least you admit your bias
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#36
That goes beyond bias. That's denial.

Bias can lead someone to call a great player a good one.

Only full blown denial can get someone to say a 10x First Team NHL All Star 7x Rocket Richard 3x Hart 3x Pearson/Lindsay, Art Ross, Calder, Conn Smythe and Stanley Cup winner "will never get any credit for anything from me".

Trying to suggest that it's bad goaltending that has allowed OV to score as much as he has (despite all the statistical evidence to the contrary about the era in which OV plays in comparison to the past)….just reinforces what Leaf forum participants have been aware of for a long time:

Viable is not to be taken seriously.
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#37
Viable - who's the top goal scorer in the game right now?
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#38
saw a stat on the sportnet last night, I believe OV would need to maintain this pace he is currently at, for around another, I think 425 games?? to break gretzky's 894


I still think he will hit 800 if age doesn't take its toll on him, which unfortunately it usually does
Life... dreams... hope...
Where do they come from?
And where do they go...?

Such meaningless things... I'll destroy them all!

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#39
(2018-12-13, 10:34 AM)ZappaScores Wrote: Viable - who's the top goal scorer in the game right now?

Not OV....
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#40
Not what I asked. Pretty simple - who?
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