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your top 3 players of all time
#21
Wayne
Mario
Gordie


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#22
You can watch old games on YouTube now. There used to be dozens of them and I can only imagine how many there are now.

I watched a lot of Orr on YouTube and from the VHS hockey game trade days and what I saw was in my humble opinion the player who was the furthest ahead of his time. Players just didn't skate well enough to adjust to his turns and absolute fluency in his skating. He simply moved too well for his time.

#1 Orr (greatest all-around player)
#2/3 (tie) Lemieux (greatest goalscorer)/Gretzky (greatest playmaker)
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#23
Forwards: 
  1. Gretzky
  2. Mario
  3. Sittler
Defence:
  1. Orr
  2. Coffee
  3. Horton
Goalkeepers:
  1. Brodeur
  2. Roy
  3. Sawchuk
"Stand up for yourself young fellow. Nobody else is going to do it for you" 
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#24
Gretzky 
McDavid 
Messier
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#25
9
99
19
When sound found rhythm the dimensions of joy exploded.
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#26
(2018-12-30, 10:38 PM)ZappaScores Wrote: No way was Orr better than 99. He may have changed the position, but Gretzky changed the game.

How did Gretzky change the game?

He had an amazing skillset and he arrived on the scene at the absolute perfect time for that particular skillset to dominate the way it did.

If the same guy shows up a generation earlier or a generation later, he's not doing what he did. He'd still be getting talked about in a thread like this, to be fair.

In fact I think it's fairly telling how many don't have him as #1
"I drink to make other people interesting"
~ E. Hemmingway
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#27
I'd probably put Gretzky as #1 but he retired when I was 6. Can't fairly judge him lol. Seeing little of Lemieuc was insane, that dude put up points at will
If you need a sign to stay alive tonight, this is it!
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#28
As far as favourite players to watch LIVE: Gretzky was the clear #1. It was amazing watching him be so many steps ahead of everyone that players were practically guessing on where he was gonna go next. He was at one time the best skater in the league with the best vision. As he got older and other players caught up with him, he simply only had the best vision in the game.

IMO, he probably would've been the #1 all-time by a mile had he continue his scoring pace in the 90s (not that he was bad, but nowhere close to the 80s). The guy I blame for slowing him down the most was Gary Suter and his hit from behind in the '91 Canada Cup (and that same ass would ruin Kariya).

I frankly love watching Elias Pettersson right now and would put him as my #2 favourite to watch live. He's a homer pick, but I can't say I even enjoyed watching Bure more than him. Pettersson is the shiftiest, smartest and craftiest player I've ever seen in Vancouver. And his shot is like something you would expect to see at Cirque de Soleil. He hits his target with almost 100% frequency.

The other guy who was a gem to watch live was Cam Neely. I can still remember the sound of the boards when that guy hit somebody. He was maybe the most dangerous clean hitter in NHL history.
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#29
Anybody who has anyone else other than Gretzky as their top player doesn't know shit about hockey

#Trolling
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#30
pffft!
"I drink to make other people interesting"
~ E. Hemmingway
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#31
As a Leaf fan for decades my choice s are

Belliveau
Gretzky
Plante

Honorable mention

Orr
Bure
“Success is Walking from Failure to Failure with no Loss of Enthusiasm.”
Winston Churchill
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#32
(2018-12-31, 04:56 PM)Limestoner Wrote:
(2018-12-30, 10:38 PM)ZappaScores Wrote: No way was Orr better than 99. He may have changed the position, but Gretzky changed the game.

How did Gretzky change the game?

He had an amazing skillset and he arrived on the scene at the absolute perfect time for that particular skillset to dominate the way it did.

If the same guy shows up a generation earlier or a generation later, he's not doing what he did. He'd still be getting talked about in a thread like this, to be fair.

In fact I think it's fairly telling how many don't have him as #1

Lots of people don’t consider OV one of, if not, the greatest goal scorers of all time. 

Does that tell you more about OV or more about the people saying it?
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#33
We're talking about the top players of all time.

You are deflecting?
"I drink to make other people interesting"
~ E. Hemmingway
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#34
(2018-12-31, 04:56 PM)Limestoner Wrote:
(2018-12-30, 10:38 PM)ZappaScores Wrote: No way was Orr better than 99. He may have changed the position, but Gretzky changed the game.

How did Gretzky change the game?

He had an amazing skillset and he arrived on the scene at the absolute perfect time for that particular skillset to dominate the way it did.

If the same guy shows up a generation earlier or a generation later, he's not doing what he did. He'd still be getting talked about in a thread like this, to be fair.

In fact I think it's fairly telling how many don't have him as #1

The Gretzky rule comes to mind. Or the teams in San Jose and Anaheim. Or the surge in Californians and development in US hockey, that happens to coincide with his arrival in LA.  There’s the SNL appearance that gave unprecedented exposure to the sport. And that’s not to mention all the scoring records that surely impacted the game. 

Tell me who doesn’t have him at #1 that’s most telling.
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#35
(2018-12-31, 10:34 PM)ZappaScores Wrote:
(2018-12-31, 04:56 PM)Limestoner Wrote:
(2018-12-30, 10:38 PM)ZappaScores Wrote: No way was Orr better than 99. He may have changed the position, but Gretzky changed the game.

How did Gretzky change the game?

He had an amazing skillset and he arrived on the scene at the absolute perfect time for that particular skillset to dominate the way it did.

If the same guy shows up a generation earlier or a generation later, he's not doing what he did. He'd still be getting talked about in a thread like this, to be fair.

In fact I think it's fairly telling how many don't have him as #1

The Gretzky rule comes to mind. Or the teams in San Jose and Anaheim. Or the surge in Californians and development in US hockey, that happens to coincide with his arrival in LA.  There’s the SNL appearance that gave unprecedented exposure to the sport. And that’s not to mention all the scoring records that surely impacted the game. 

Tell me who doesn’t have him at #1 that’s most telling.

I don't, but I will agree that he was the greatest ambassador to the game ever. He was filled with class, a great player, not ugly (Orr was a great player, but he didn't look great as a player and actually looked better years later after his retirement) and he dominated an entire decade while playing on arguably the greatest team in history (#2 on my list behind the late 70s Canadiens). Wayne playing in LA was great for the league. Same with him playing in NYC.
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#36
(2018-12-31, 10:34 PM)ZappaScores Wrote: The Gretzky rule comes to mind. Or the teams in San Jose and Anaheim.

Tell me who doesn’t have him at #1 that’s most telling.

The "Gretzky rule" should more appropriately be referred to as the "Oilers rule".

Hockey becoming more popular in the US did not 'change the game'. In time it changed the landscape of the league perhaps. Not the same thing at all.

Bobby Orr redefining what defensemen were all about changed the game. Marty Brodeur playing the puck changed the game. Butterfly goaltending and humongus goalie equipment changed the game. Clutch and grab changed the game. The league deciding to call the the game by the rule book to end the dead puck era changed the game...

The fact that a player is exceptional (and Gretzky was, no mistake) does not by itself change the game.
"I drink to make other people interesting"
~ E. Hemmingway
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#37
The league changed PP rules because of Gretzky & the Oilers
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#38
(2018-12-31, 11:05 PM)CTS Wrote: The league changed PP rules because of Gretzky & the Oilers


Ya. That's what I said.
"I drink to make other people interesting"
~ E. Hemmingway
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#39
(2018-12-31, 11:02 PM)Limestoner Wrote:
(2018-12-31, 10:34 PM)ZappaScores Wrote: The Gretzky rule comes to mind. Or the teams in San Jose and Anaheim.

Tell me who doesn’t have him at #1 that’s most telling.

The "Gretzky rule" should more appropriately be referred to as the "Oilers rule".

Hockey becoming more popular in the US did not 'change the game'. In time it changed the landscape of the league perhaps. Not the same thing at all.

Bobby Orr redefining what defensemen were all about changed the game. Marty Brodeur playing the puck changed the game. Butterfly goaltending and humongus goalie equipment changed the game. Clutch and grab changed the game. The league deciding to call the the game by the rule book to end the dead puck era changed the game...

The fact that a player is exceptional (and Gretzky was, no mistake) does not by itself change the game.

The greatest changes to the game came from unexceptional people in many cases. Jacques Lemaire took the system Scotty Bowman taught him, upgraded it, and used it to trap and suffocate the far more talented '95 Red Wings team and the trap was born.

McSorley, Bertuzzi, and Chris Simon changed the game by essentially giving the league all the reason it needed to eliminate fighting from the game as much as possible (with excessive violence).

Garth Snow changed the game with his lacrosse equipment he wore in the '96 playoffs.

When people say a great player changed the game, it's usually BS. They were the best, but usually the game changes because of somebody who is far from prominence at the time.

Same goes for life. While people think guys like Lincoln and Roosevelt were changing the world, the truth is that Thomas Edison and Victor Tesla were changing the world far more. And they didn't get the same level of ink as the others.
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#40
(2018-12-31, 11:02 PM)Limestoner Wrote:
(2018-12-31, 10:34 PM)ZappaScores Wrote: The Gretzky rule comes to mind. Or the teams in San Jose and Anaheim.

Tell me who doesn’t have him at #1 that’s most telling.

The "Gretzky rule" should more appropriately be referred to as the "Oilers rule".

Hockey becoming more popular in the US did not 'change the game'. In time it changed the landscape of the league perhaps. Not the same thing at all.

Bobby Orr redefining what defensemen were all about changed the game. Marty Brodeur playing the puck changed the game. Butterfly goaltending and humongus goalie equipment changed the game. Clutch and grab changed the game. The league deciding to call the the game by the rule book to end the dead puck era changed the game...

The fact that a player is exceptional (and Gretzky was, no mistake) does not by itself change the game.

Right - the Oilers are the offensive juggernaut without Gretzky. Rules changes were named after him, but he didn’t change the game... Icon_rolleyes

Broduer playing the puck changed the game, but Gretzky setting up shop behind the net didn’t??? He didn’t generate all that offence because he was super fast, had a blistering shot or was imposing in stature. He did it with the way he thought the game. That certainly changed how the game was played.
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