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your top 3 players of all time
#41
Patrick Roy
Mario Lemieux
Wendel Clark
"Oh mischief, glorious mischief...I do so love it!"
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#42
(2018-12-31, 10:10 PM)Limestoner Wrote: We're talking about the top players  of all time.

You are deflecting?

I’m not deflecting. Just because people say something does not make it interesting. Lots of people think OV is a bad player who’s only skill is shooing the puck. Lots of people thinking that does not give that view credibility. 

With Gretzky, he is and was so above his peers that it gets boring to call him Number one every time this topic comes up. So people will look for reasons as to why he does not belong on on the top of the list and try to validate that position. Some of the names ahead of Gretzky on these lists are laughable and really just prove people are trying to bump him down the list.
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#43
(2019-01-01, 10:55 AM)TheOilerFan83 Wrote:
(2018-12-31, 10:10 PM)Limestoner Wrote: We're talking about the top players  of all time.

You are deflecting?

I’m not deflecting. Just because people say something does not make it interesting. Lots of people think OV is a bad player who’s only skill is shooing the puck. Lots of people thinking that does not give that view credibility. 

With Gretzky, he is and was so above his peers that it gets boring to call him Number one every time this topic comes up. So people will look for reasons as to why he does not belong on on the top of the list and try to validate that position. Some of the names ahead of Gretzky on these lists are laughable and really just prove people are trying to bump him down the list.

Keep in mind, some people might be looking for reasons to bump Gretzky down for whatever reason, there's going to be generations of people who've never seen him play. I can't honestly say he's the best because I've never properly seen him. My argument would be off stats alone.
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#44
By tangibles, only:
1) Gretzky
2) Orr
3) Lemieux

Adding intangibles:
1) Roy
2) Messier
3) Richard

The latter set are the hardest players to beat - those who could lift their team to victory through sheer will.
---
"Obviously, probably, you know, scoring probably helps." - Carey Price
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#45
In all fairness the thread title should have been, Your 3 favorite players. I mean even I know that Gretzky is better than Lafleur. Like I said before though, Orr is probably the greatest of all time.
 23 more years.
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#46
Orr just took advantage of an archaic system and could skate better then his peers. Hardly enough to seperate him from everyone else.
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#47
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I've been obnoxious....I've been unconscious....I've been all kinds of things that are hard to spell.

Stephen Bruton
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#48
(2019-01-01, 03:14 PM)bchippie Wrote: In all fairness the thread title should have been, Your 3 favorite players. I mean even I know that Gretzky is better than Lafleur. Like I said before though, Orr is probably the greatest of all time.

Is Orr the greatest, or was he just the first? He redefined the position, no doubt, but does that make him the greatest to play the game?

An argument can be made Orr was not the best defenseman, let alone the best player. 

The best analysis I have heard is Gretzky is the best player to play the game, but there is no Gretzky without Orr.
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#49
(2019-01-01, 06:14 PM)TheOilerFan83 Wrote:
(2019-01-01, 03:14 PM)bchippie Wrote: In all fairness the thread title should have been, Your 3 favorite players. I mean even I know that Gretzky is better than Lafleur. Like I said before though, Orr is probably the greatest of all time.

Is Orr the greatest, or was he just the first? He redefined the position, no doubt, but does that make him the greatest to play the game?

An argument can be made Orr was not the best defenseman, let alone the best player. 

The best analysis I have heard is Gretzky is the best player to play the game, but there is no Gretzky without Orr.

"So people will look for reasons as to why he (Gretzky) does not belong on on the top of the list and try to validate that position"

"An argument can be made Orr was not the best defenseman"

I see, you think that Orr probably wasn't the best Defenseman when he clearly was but don't anybody dare say that Orr and Lemieux are better than Gretzky.??
 23 more years.
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#50
One thing you can always count on in these threads is that the Gretzky fans will get pissy.
"I drink to make other people interesting"
~ E. Hemmingway
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#51
(2019-01-01, 06:33 PM)Limestoner Wrote: One thing you can always count on in these threads is that the Gretzky fans will get pissy.

Who’s pissy?
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#52
(2019-01-01, 06:30 PM)bchippie Wrote:
(2019-01-01, 06:14 PM)TheOilerFan83 Wrote:
(2019-01-01, 03:14 PM)bchippie Wrote: In all fairness the thread title should have been, Your 3 favorite players. I mean even I know that Gretzky is better than Lafleur. Like I said before though, Orr is probably the greatest of all time.

Is Orr the greatest, or was he just the first? He redefined the position, no doubt, but does that make him the greatest to play the game?

An argument can be made Orr was not the best defenseman, let alone the best player. 

The best analysis I have heard is Gretzky is the best player to play the game, but there is no Gretzky without Orr.

"So people will look for reasons as to why he (Gretzky) does not belong on on the top of the list and try to validate that position"

"An argument can be made Orr was not the best defenseman"

I see, you think that Orr probably wasn't the best Defenseman when he clearly was but don't anybody dare say that Orr and Lemieux are better than Gretzky.??

I am posing the question is he the best to ever play or remembered that way because The way he played was unprecedented. 

To expand, a guy like Karlsson puts up insane numbers for a d-man. But there are other d-men who put up fantastic numbers, so his production is understated because other d-men in the league are still very productive. That applies to other dmen like Lidstrom, Bourque, etc. They were great but the position had developed where they were not the only dman playing that style of game. 

When Orr broke into the league, there was not a Brent Burns or a Mike Green to compare and contrast his abilities. He was the first to play that way and no one could compare to him. 

Did that environment of no real completion create an unfair perception of him being the greatest off all time? 

When you compare that to Gretzky, Gretzky played with and against dozens of hall of fame players who put up insane numbers. Gretzky absolutely obliterated them. There is a comparable for Gretzky in that era. That comparable did not exist with Orr.
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#53
Orr won scoring championships. That's never been done. From what I've heard from people who have watched both play, it's pretty close. Advantage, Orr but not by much.
 23 more years.
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#54
What it may come down to is, does Gretzky’s longevity win out? Gretzky has how many scoring records? Orr has how many dman records? Would Orr have more if he didn’t blow out his knee? Does Gretzky being able to play longer than Orr could affect your thoughts on best ever? If Orr’s career spanned as long as Bourque’s let’s say, would his name be in the record books for dmen as much as Gretzky’s is? I didn’t see Orr play, and I’m biased since Gretzky was one of my favourites growing up watching him, but if they had played against each other, it would be an easier way to decipher. Orr was the best of his generation, Gretzky was the best of his. I don’t think there is a right or wrong in who anyone considers best of all time
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#55
The Holy Trinity of hockey:
Gretzky, Orr, Lemieux. 

You can argue what order they belong in for eternity, but in my mind, these are the undisputed greatest players of all-time.
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#56
Maybe right now Fitz, but have you seen Samorukov this tournament?
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#57
Bossy is rarely if ever mentioned yet he lead the isles to 4 consecutive Stanley cups.
He played 10 seasons scoring 60 or more goals in 5 of them, more than 50 in 4 of them and retired when hisn production dropped to a lowly 38 goals.

He may not have been the best but he was far better than some of the players mentioned here so far.
"In all matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane."     Oscar Wilde
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#58
Rocket Richard

Bobby Orr

Mario Lemieux

Rocket carried the hopes and dreams of a whole culture, lead his team to five consecutive Cups while doing all the scoring and his own fighting, against other players, NHL refs, and Clarence Campbell. No other player carried that burden, and succeeded so valiantly with that kind of weight on him.

Orr transcended his position and forever changed how a defenceman was viewed. There were other offensive D-men before Orr, but none remotely close to transforming the game the way he did. Coffey was closest, but came years after, and had Gretzky and Mario helping.

Mario may have been the most talented player ever. Yes, Gretzky has all the records and even inspired Mario to greater heights, but Mario had God-given talent supreme. If Mario's sitting on the bench in a Canada Cup shootout, no way he gets passed over like Wayne did. Great vision, could pass or shoot, hold off opponents with one hand while scoring with the other. Just flat out frightening.
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#59
Well everyone picks Orr - Robinson and Gretzky or Mario.. because of their obscene numbers but FAVORITES

  STEAMERR!!! (Smyl) He never quit, never took a shift off. Hardest working guy in the history of the game, and he had the courage of a Lion

  Bob Probert: He was the enforcer, and Mister everything, 29 goals in his best year. . .  and he is one reason why Yzerman was never roughed up  and thirdly:

 Scott Stevens

  Ok... Pronger, Potvin, Bourque, Coffey and many others were bigger scorers, and maybe even better in some other aspects of the game, but this guy just plain hammered everything and everyone, and was feared more than any other except maybe old Doug Harvey... and I'm from the old school that says you gotta have a some mean guys to win.


 
 Honorable mention are Richie Sutter, and Brendan Shanahan...  and the guys I mentioned all have heart.. TONS of it
Phill 2:10-11 
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#60
(2019-01-08, 01:35 AM)Gerry Pigeon Wrote: Rocket Richard

Bobby Orr

Mario Lemieux

Rocket carried the hopes and dreams of a whole culture, lead his team to five consecutive Cups while doing all the scoring and his own fighting, against other players, NHL refs, and Clarence Campbell.  No other player carried that burden, and succeeded so valiantly with that kind of weight on him.

Orr transcended his position and forever changed how a defenceman was viewed.  There were other offensive D-men before Orr, but none remotely close to transforming the game the way he did.  Coffey was closest, but came years after, and had Gretzky and Mario helping.  

Mario may have been the most talented player ever.  Yes, Gretzky has all the records and even inspired Mario to greater heights, but Mario had God-given talent supreme.  If Mario's sitting on the bench in a Canada Cup shootout, no way he gets passed over like Wayne did.  Great vision, could pass or shoot, hold off opponents with one hand while scoring with the other.  Just flat out frightening.

 Mark Crawford was a total idiot to sit 99 in that shootout
Phill 2:10-11 
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