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your top 3 players of all time
#81
(2019-01-09, 02:27 PM)Highstyx Wrote: OOPS*  (think EA Sports rating where you just assign value based on ability/skill) 

Okay No contest is Mario Wayne and Orr. They own their own planet

 So lets drop down one notch:

 Larry Robinson 19 +66 best season, and awesome complete D man
 
 Mike Bossy  69,68, 64, 60, 60 and 59 goals

 Yzerman 65 + 90, 58 plus 79 .. 62 + 65, and in 64 games, a pair of 52's 'Nuff said

Bossy gets no credit... Probably the purest goal scorer of his time.... 9 straight 50 goal seasons... never done before or since...  and he only played 10 seasons due to injury and scored 38 in 60 games in his 10th and final season
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#82
(2019-01-10, 12:38 AM)Gerry Pigeon Wrote:
(2019-01-09, 01:49 PM)Highstyx Wrote:
(2019-01-08, 01:35 AM)Gerry Pigeon Wrote: Rocket Richard

Bobby Orr

Mario Lemieux

Rocket carried the hopes and dreams of a whole culture, lead his team to five consecutive Cups while doing all the scoring and his own fighting, against other players, NHL refs, and Clarence Campbell.  No other player carried that burden, and succeeded so valiantly with that kind of weight on him.

Orr transcended his position and forever changed how a defenceman was viewed.  There were other offensive D-men before Orr, but none remotely close to transforming the game the way he did.  Coffey was closest, but came years after, and had Gretzky and Mario helping.  

Mario may have been the most talented player ever.  Yes, Gretzky has all the records and even inspired Mario to greater heights, but Mario had God-given talent supreme.  If Mario's sitting on the bench in a Canada Cup shootout, no way he gets passed over like Wayne did.  Great vision, could pass or shoot, hold off opponents with one hand while scoring with the other.  Just flat out frightening.

 Mark Crawford was a total idiot to sit 99 in that shootout

Agree it wasn't the right move, but it's easy to second guess in hindsight.  

Point is, there was actually a debate afterward, as many fans were outraged, but many also noted Gretzky wasn't exactly the top of mind player when it came to needing a goal in a shootout.  

I doubt Mario would have had that issue.  In fact, if that Canada Cup had rules like the WJC, Mario would have been taking ALL the penalty shots, like Toews in the WJC when he got hot...

Right ?? but he scored more goals than anyone else in the history of the game.. and best season 27% shot.. and that was on 87 goals!! CRAWFORD WAS AN IDIOT
Phill 2:10-11 
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#83
(2019-01-10, 01:46 PM)Nimmsens Wrote:
(2019-01-09, 02:27 PM)Highstyx Wrote: OOPS*  (think EA Sports rating where you just assign value based on ability/skill) 

Okay No contest is Mario Wayne and Orr. They own their own planet

 So lets drop down one notch:

 Larry Robinson 19 +66 best season, and awesome complete D man
 
 Mike Bossy  69,68, 64, 60, 60 and 59 goals

 Yzerman 65 + 90, 58 plus 79 .. 62 + 65, and in 64 games, a pair of 52's 'Nuff said

Bossy gets no credit... Probably the purest goal scorer of his time.... 9 straight 50 goal seasons... never done before or since...  and he only played 10 seasons due to injury and scored 38 in 60 games in his 10th and final season

 I think most of us who are on the upside of 55 y.o. rate him pretty good. He killed it. and.. I still remember poor Harold when he chipped it off the wall out of the zone and there was number 22.    2 seconds later, game over.

 My scoring line:

 Gillies - 99- and OV
 Shanahan -Yzerman - Bossy

 Probert -  Clarke - Howe

 W. Clark - Dale Hunter - Smyl

2 scoring lines, a checker line and a grinder line  I have tough time picking just individuals, vs what would work ... and nobody would push any of them around. eg Cory Perry spearing Yzerman in the nuts... aint gonna happen

I bolded my top three, and left out Mario and 99 because everyone picks them ... but imo those combos would jell
Phill 2:10-11 
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#84
(2019-01-10, 01:46 PM)Nimmsens Wrote:
(2019-01-09, 02:27 PM)Highstyx Wrote: OOPS*  (think EA Sports rating where you just assign value based on ability/skill) 

Okay No contest is Mario Wayne and Orr. They own their own planet

 So lets drop down one notch:

 Larry Robinson 19 +66 best season, and awesome complete D man
 
 Mike Bossy  69,68, 64, 60, 60 and 59 goals

 Yzerman 65 + 90, 58 plus 79 .. 62 + 65, and in 64 games, a pair of 52's 'Nuff said

Bossy gets no credit... Probably the purest goal scorer of his time.... 9 straight 50 goal seasons... never done before or since...  and he only played 10 seasons due to injury and scored 38 in 60 games in his 10th and final season

It's not so much he doesnt get credit (maybe an argument could be made he's underrrated) but in a topic discussing the "top" players in history people will tend to evaluate a player based on more than one component. Everything has to be factored in including but not limited to goal scoring, playmaking, overall points standing , general health and longevity career-wise, awards etc.
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#85
Does this count?

Accomplishments
As of 2018, Bossy holds or shares the following NHL records:

Most consecutive 50+ goal seasons: 9
Most 50+ goal seasons (not necessarily consecutive): 9 (tied with Wayne Gretzky)
Most 60+ goal seasons (not necessarily consecutive): 5 (tied with Wayne Gretzky)
Highest goals-per-game average, career (minimum 200 total goals): .762 goals per game
Most power-play goals, one playoff season: 9 (tied with Cam Neely)
Most consecutive hat tricks: 3 (tied with Joe Malone, who accomplished this twice)
In January, 2017, Bossy was part of the second group of players to be named one of the '100 Greatest NHL Players' in history.[2]
Bossy won the following major NHL awards:

Calder Memorial Trophy (rookie of the year), 1978
Conn Smythe Trophy (playoff MVP), 1982
Lady Byng Trophy (player best combining a high skill level with gentlemanly play), three times (1983, 1984, 1986)
First Team All-Star, five times
He also led the league in goals twice, in 1978-79 and 1980-81 (both predate the Rocket Richard Trophy). He was a part of all four Stanley Cup-winning New York Islanders teams.
"In all matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane."     Oscar Wilde
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#86
(2019-01-11, 01:02 AM)Lagavulin Wrote: Does this count?

Accomplishments
As of 2018, Bossy holds or shares the following NHL records:

Most consecutive 50+ goal seasons: 9
Most 50+ goal seasons (not necessarily consecutive): 9 (tied with Wayne Gretzky)
Most 60+ goal seasons (not necessarily consecutive): 5 (tied with Wayne Gretzky)
Highest goals-per-game average, career (minimum 200 total goals): .762 goals per game
Most power-play goals, one playoff season: 9 (tied with Cam Neely)
Most consecutive hat tricks: 3 (tied with Joe Malone, who accomplished this twice)
In January, 2017, Bossy was part of the second group of players to be named one of the '100 Greatest NHL Players' in history.[2]
Bossy won the following major NHL awards:

Calder Memorial Trophy (rookie of the year), 1978
Conn Smythe Trophy (playoff MVP), 1982
Lady Byng Trophy (player best combining a high skill level with gentlemanly play), three times (1983, 1984, 1986)
First Team All-Star, five times
He also led the league in goals twice, in 1978-79 and 1980-81 (both predate the Rocket Richard Trophy). He was a part of all four Stanley Cup-winning New York Islanders teams.

Yet still underrated.

Wasn't flashy, didn't seem to like the limelight.  

And playing with such a great and well balanced team that had guys like Trottier, Gillies, Potvin, and Billy Smith attracting the attention, Bossy had one of the greatest, yet quietest, careers you can imagine.

In a league where Ovechkin continues to pound goals home, where both Hulls scored buckets of goals, where Gretzky and Lemieux made goal-scoring look like child's play, Esposito impressed with his will to stand in the slot and execute at a ludicrous pace, and speedsters like Bure, Seleanne, and Mogilny brought us out of our seats, Bossy still looks to me like the purest goal scorer the game has ever seen.
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#87
Maybe it is because I was a kid in the '80s, growing up through the Oilers/Islanders rivalry, but I always thought Bossy was a huge star and generally recognized as one of the best scorers ever.  I didn't even realize he was underrated until now.
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#88
Underrated yes, top 3 all time, tough argument to make.
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#89
(2019-01-12, 05:00 PM)Fritz Wrote: Maybe it is because I was a kid in the '80s, growing up through the Oilers/Islanders rivalry, but I always thought Bossy was a huge star and generally recognized as one of the best scorers ever.  I didn't even realize he was underrated until now.

I grew up through the Habs 70's dynasty, then the Isles four Cups.  Yup, Bossy was fantastic.

But subsequent careers by Gretzky, Mario, Brett Hull, and Ovie, seem to have relegated Bossy to secondary stature as a goal scorer.

So underrated is relative.  

Is Bossy recognized as a great goal scorer?  Yup.

Is Bossy recognized as the greatest goal scorer?  I don't think so.

But he should be, IMO.
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#90
To be honest, until now, I thought he was generally regarded as the best goal scorer ever.  The dude was an amazing player, and even as an Oiler fan growing up, I was often Mike Bossy when we played street hockey, lol.
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#91
(2019-01-12, 10:15 PM)Gerry Pigeon Wrote: Is Bossy recognized as the greatest goal scorer?  I don't think so.

But he should be, IMO.

He wasn't even the greatest goal scorer of his era. 

He gets referred to "the greatest pure goal scorer" because it was his obvious strength. Gretzky "the playmaker" was a better goal-scorer in every conceivable way. 

In his first 10 seasons, ages 21 - 30, Bossy scored 573 goals. 

In Gretzky's first 10 seasons, he scored 637 goals. 
From ages 21 - 30, Gretzky scored 609 goals. 
While they were in the league together, Bossy scored 451 goal; almost 100 behind Gretzky's 543. 
Bossy lead the league in goals twice and only once while Gretzky was in the league. Gretzky lead 5 times, all while Bossy was active. 
Bossy's season high (69) would be Gretzky's 5th highest single season total. 

Bossy was great, to be sure, but he wasn't The Great One.
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#92
(2019-01-12, 10:27 PM)Fritz Wrote: To be honest, until now, I thought he was generally regarded as the best goal scorer ever.  The dude was an amazing player, and even as an Oiler fan growing up, I was often Mike Bossy when we played street hockey, lol.

I was a big islander fan and had the pleasure of watching them at the Northlands Colosseum in game 2 of the 1983 Stanley cup finals.(I was an Engineer for Dome Petroleum and got Free tickets from a salesman for a wireline company)
I may have been the only Isles fan there. During the 1st intermission I bought a big Islander button; the only Isles fan paraphernalia I could find.   Cool
"In all matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane."     Oscar Wilde
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#93
(2019-01-12, 11:32 PM)ZappaScores Wrote:
(2019-01-12, 10:15 PM)Gerry Pigeon Wrote: Is Bossy recognized as the greatest goal scorer?  I don't think so.

But he should be, IMO.

He wasn't even the greatest goal scorer of his era. 

He gets referred to "the greatest pure goal scorer" because it was his obvious strength. Gretzky "the playmaker" was a better goal-scorer in every conceivable way. 

In his first 10 seasons, ages 21 - 30, Bossy scored 573 goals. 

In Gretzky's first 10 seasons, he scored 637 goals. 
From ages 21 - 30, Gretzky scored 609 goals. 
While they were in the league together, Bossy scored 451 goal; almost 100 behind Gretzky's 543. 
Bossy lead the league in goals twice and only once while Gretzky was in the league. Gretzky lead 5 times, all while Bossy was active. 
Bossy's season high (69) would be Gretzky's 5th highest single season total. 

Bossy was great, to be sure, but he wasn't The Great One.

 If he'd have had Gretzky setting him up, he'd have gotten 90... ok, ok, 89
Phill 2:10-11 
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#94
(2019-01-12, 11:56 PM)Lagavulin Wrote:
(2019-01-12, 10:27 PM)Fritz Wrote: To be honest, until now, I thought he was generally regarded as the best goal scorer ever.  The dude was an amazing player, and even as an Oiler fan growing up, I was often Mike Bossy when we played street hockey, lol.

I was a big islander fan and had the pleasure of watching them at the Northlands Colosseum in game 2 of the 1983 Stanley cup finals.(I was an Engineer for Dome Petroleum and got Free tickets from a salesman for a wireline company)
I may have been the only Isles fan there. During the 1st intermission I bought a big Islander button; the only Isles fan paraphernalia I could find.   Cool

  In those days, you could not buy a seat in that place. Sellout every game. Scalpers paradise.. I paid $40 for a center ice middle blue, and that was a good deal.. and that was the Philly game where Gretzky got number 46, and then 47-8-9-50. The place went nuts
Phill 2:10-11 
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#95
(2019-01-13, 03:26 AM)Highstyx Wrote:
(2019-01-12, 11:32 PM)ZappaScores Wrote:
(2019-01-12, 10:15 PM)Gerry Pigeon Wrote: Is Bossy recognized as the greatest goal scorer?  I don't think so.

But he should be, IMO.

He wasn't even the greatest goal scorer of his era. 

He gets referred to "the greatest pure goal scorer" because it was his obvious strength. Gretzky "the playmaker" was a better goal-scorer in every conceivable way. 

In his first 10 seasons, ages 21 - 30, Bossy scored 573 goals. 

In Gretzky's first 10 seasons, he scored 637 goals. 
From ages 21 - 30, Gretzky scored 609 goals. 
While they were in the league together, Bossy scored 451 goal; almost 100 behind Gretzky's 543. 
Bossy lead the league in goals twice and only once while Gretzky was in the league. Gretzky lead 5 times, all while Bossy was active. 
Bossy's season high (69) would be Gretzky's 5th highest single season total. 

Bossy was great, to be sure, but he wasn't The Great One.

 If he'd have had Gretzky setting him up, he'd have gotten 90... ok, ok, 89

Gretzky got 92 - How many would he have gotten if he had Gretzky setting him up?
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#96
(2019-01-13, 03:28 AM)Highstyx Wrote:
(2019-01-12, 11:56 PM)Lagavulin Wrote:
(2019-01-12, 10:27 PM)Fritz Wrote: To be honest, until now, I thought he was generally regarded as the best goal scorer ever.  The dude was an amazing player, and even as an Oiler fan growing up, I was often Mike Bossy when we played street hockey, lol.

I was a big islander fan and had the pleasure of watching them at the Northlands Colosseum in game 2 of the 1983 Stanley cup finals.(I was an Engineer for Dome Petroleum and got Free tickets from a salesman for a wireline company)
I may have been the only Isles fan there. During the 1st intermission I bought a big Islander button; the only Isles fan paraphernalia I could find.   Cool

  In those days, you could not buy a seat in that place. Sellout every game. Scalpers paradise.. I paid $40 for a center ice middle blue, and that was a good deal.. and that was the Philly game where Gretzky got number 46, and then 47-8-9-50. The place went nuts

That would be the 39th game that season - 50 in 39.

50 in to an empty net.
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#97
Henri Richard - 11 Stanley Cups
Jean Beliveau - 10 Stanley Cups
Claude Provost - 9 Stanley Cups

Cool
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#98
Agggh, Claude Provost, how could we miss him?

I guess Charlie Huddy, with is 5 Stanley Cups in the 80s was once of the best d-men of that generation?
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#99
(2019-01-13, 07:30 AM)Pouzar Wrote: Agggh, Claude Provost, how could we miss him?

I guess Charlie Huddy, with is 5 Stanley Cups in the 80s was once of the best d-men of that generation?

I will tell my grandchildren about the prowess of both Claude Provost and Charlie Huddy.  The towel-boys from the Habs from the 1950’s to the 1980’s probably have more Stanley Cups than any players.
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What's the question? The top 3 players that we ourselves have seen? In that case, I'd say:

Lidstrom
Hasek
Crosby

HM: McDavid, Datsyuk in his prime, Ovechkin, Karlsson, Pronger, etc.

I saw guys like Lemieux, Yzerman, Gretzky, etc, I suppose, but would have been too young to really appreciate what I was seeing, so didn't include them.
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